Coach wants a timeout...

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by DC_Ref12

Bitter much?

JR? Oh, he's bitter all the time.

But he's also right this time. You're trying to read something into the rules that isn't there. The TO is requested (by player or coach), and the official can then grant it if it is allowed by rules, or ignore it if the request is not allowable. If a coach asks me, "Can I have a TO if he makes this FT?", I tell them, "Sure, but just verify it with me when he makes it". There is no set rule as to how the request is to be made, so if I know the coach will want a TO in a particular situation, and they give me some sort of acknowledgment, (nod, wink, "T" signal with the hands, whatever), I consider that the request.

It's not much different than when a team goes on that 8-0 run, you start watching that other coach because there's probably a good chance they'll want a TO. Then, when they give you the nod, or mouth "time out", or whatever they do, you'll be ready to grant the request at that time.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Soooooo.....does that mean that you WILL actually grant that pre-request for a TO the first time that the inbounds or closely guarded count gets to 4?

If so....silly monkey. Shrug.

Why would I do something so stupid?

[chartrusepengui]

When I was coaching in these situations I would inform the official that I would be requesting a time-out if there was a made basket so that if the ball went in they would have a heads-up and be waiting for my request. Same with the other situation. It seemed to work well

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

Why would I do something so stupid?

Must have got confused.....

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Must have got confused.....

See what being bitter all the time does to you.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

See what being bitter all the time does to you.

Bitter AND confused.

...sounds like a good name for a bar band, or a drink, or something. Or a game show! That's it!

"Howie"...slams down the little plastic box thingy..."I'm bitter AND confused!!"

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

Bitter AND confused.

...sounds like a good name for a bar band, or a drink, or something. Or a game show! That's it!

"Howie"...slams down the little plastic box thingy..."I'm bitter AND confused!!"

That's worth an additional 100 points, and you get to move on to the next round.

Or, "Dazed and Confused" - Led Zeppelin, approximately 1969. (That's somewhere around JR's 30-yr. officiating anniversary date, isn't it?)

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

Bitter AND confused.

...sounds like a good name for a bar band, or a drink, or something. Or a game show!

Or somebody that's married.....

Then you can add "broke and horny".......

And you end up with.....wait for it.....Bitter, Confused, Broke, Horny, Dopey, Sneezy and Chuck

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

And you end up with.....wait for it.....Bitter, Confused, Broke, Horny, Dopey, Sneezy and Chuck

Are those the Seven Deadly Sins?

[kiwiref]

Coming from a different background in terms of rules, it was interesting to follow this discussion, particularly after the actual rule was posted.
IMO, the rule implies that the request has to be made at the appropriate time because there is no requirement for the officials to keep track of and administer pre-requests. In essence, the rule is "coach asks, referee grants if appropriate", not "coach asks, referee grants when the opportunity comes".
Giving heads up on an upcoming request is a different case altogether, obviously.
Cheers.

[Old School]

I think common sense should be the rule of order here. If I'm in a loud gym and I'm standing next to the coach in the C position, and the player shoots a 3-pt attempt and the coach says in my ear, if that shot goes in, give me a timeout. That's easy for me, that's the exact way I prefer it. Shot goes in, beep, timeout!

Trail position on the 2nd FT attempt, coachs says if it goes in give me a TO. I say full or 30, he says full. Shot goes in, beep, TO, Full!

Now, in the event the coach changes his mind, which I will say has never happened, before I go any further. Beep, inadvertent whistle, no subs can enter, put the ball back in play. If he doesn't have a TO, he just bought one. Simple, simple, simple. JR just has to be right but I don't think we need to do anything to the rulebook here.

Now I consider granting that timeout, at that point in time a good working relationship with me and the coach. He doesn't have to scream, jump up and down trying to get the TO called after the made bucket, and he knows I'm listening to him. This has always been a positive interaction point for me and yes, I prefer the TO's come to me this way. You better not grant a coach a TO if you are at 4 in a closely guarded count, and he requested it early. That's cheating! I would tell the coach no way in that situation. After a made bucket, not a big deal, grant the TO request. Life goes on.

[sseltser]

Now, in the event the coach changes his mind, which I will say has never happened, before I go any further. Beep, inadvertent whistle, no subs can enter, put the ball back in play. If he doesn't have a TO, he just bought one. Simple, simple, simple. JR just has to be right but I don't think we need to do anything to the rulebook here.

Why aren't you going to allow subs (assuming NFHS)?

[Mark Dexter]

Originally Posted by Old School

Now, in the event the coach changes his mind, which I will say has never happened, before I go any further. Beep, inadvertent whistle, no subs can enter, put the ball back in play. If he doesn't have a TO, he just bought one. Simple, simple, simple.

Ignoring the no subs comment for a minute . . .

The situation where the coach "changes his mind" - if he has TOs left, you do nothing, but if he doesn't have TOs left, you T him up?????? How about you charge him the timeout in BOTH situations (seeing that, in both, you stopped the clock to grant his timeout request).

This is the perfect illustration of why you should NOT even entertain requests for future timeouts - if the coach tries to weasel his way out of one, what are you going to do?

And not allowing subs? Unless you're doing an NCAA game and you're in the last 59.9 seconds of the game, subs can come in on ANY whistle (NFHS/NCAA). Period.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by sseltser

Why aren't you going to allow subs (assuming NFHS)?

Because:
1) he doesn't know the rules.
2) he doesn't own a rulebook.
3) he makes up his own rules.

[Old School]

Originally Posted by Mark Dexter

Ignoring the no subs comment for a minute . . .

The situation where the coach "changes his mind" - if he has TOs left, you do nothing, but if he doesn't have TOs left, you T him up?????? How about you charge him the timeout in BOTH situations (seeing that, in both, you stopped the clock to grant his timeout request).

This is the perfect illustration of why you should NOT even entertain requests for future timeouts - if the coach tries to weasel his way out of one, what are you going to do?

And not allowing subs? Unless you're doing an NCAA game and you're in the last 59.9 seconds of the game, subs can come in on ANY whistle (NFHS/NCAA). Period.

True, I was thinking college on the subs. To be technical you could charge him the timeouts in both cases. Unless the coach was being a pain, I would not charge him the timeout that he now says he doesn't want. I would simply put the ball back in play. But that would be his one and only time he will do that, future requests will be a TO no matter what. Remember, I preference what I said with this has never happen. I have never had a coach request a timeout in this manner and then say he doesn't want it after I stop the clock. Never! I'm not going to debate something that almost never happens, it's just not worth it. In the event that it does happen, put the ball back in play, so you see, I got both sides of the issue covered.

A wise man once said; concentrate on things that might happen, and not on things that might not.