playing short by choice

[mick]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Mick, the underlined sentence applies.

I wish it did, but fortunately (or unfortunately) there have been enough coaches trying to make the game fair to require a case play, and not enough coaches benching players for discipline to require a case play.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by mick

I wish it did, but fortunately (or unfortunately) there have been enough coaches trying to make the game fair to require a case play, and not enough coaches benching players for discipline to require a case play.

Again agree. If a player is benched, he/she is not available per se. The current rules language does not explicitly cover these cases.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Again agree. If a player is benched, he/she is not available per se. The current rules language does not explicitly cover these cases.

Interesting! Suppose the coach said to the official, "This person is not available as a player", while the player himself said, "Yes I am"? Come to think of if, what if the player added, "And he's not our coach!"?

Actually we could go far beyond that. Suppose officials come to administer a game at a certain place & time between teams A & B. At the appointed time, team B shows up, as does team A and team A' -- that is, two groups, each claiming to be one of the teams that are supposed to play. What do you do? Seems like a similar situation to the one above, just on a larger scale.

Robert

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

Interesting! Suppose the coach said to the official, "This person is not available as a player", while the player himself said, "Yes I am"? Come to think of if, what if the player added, "And he's not our coach!"?

If this is late in the game, then the coach's authority has been established and the player's statement is going to be ignored. If anything, it will solidify my position that the coach can suspend this player if he so chooses.
And really, who are we to say a player can't be suspended effective in the middle of the game?

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

And really, who are we to say a player can't be suspended effective in the middle of the game?

If the player's name is one that was submitted to the scorer prior to the start, then he is not suspended for that contest.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

If the player's name is one that was submitted to the scorer prior to the start, then he is not suspended for that contest.

Rules citation to back that comment up?

[Jimgolf]

The player obviously has a concussion. Or he will soon when the coach is finished with him for saying he's available when he's been benched.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

If the player's name is one that was submitted to the scorer prior to the start, then he is not suspended for that contest.

Wrong...you don't get to decide that. That kid could have mouthed off to the coach in the huddle or at halftime in the locker room and the coach has decided the kid is done for the night...if the coach says he/she isn't available, you don't get to disagree with them!

[Texas Aggie]

We went over this about a year or two ago, and I could swear Jurrassic was adamant in his view that the player must play unless clearly injured (or otherwise incapacitated). It could have been another poster, but its interesting to see we agree on at least ONE thing!! Maybe he'll change his view now that he sees I agree with him.

Anyway, the scenario presented then was that a coach told the official that player X would not be participating in the rest of the game and was going to be off the team after the game, or something similar, due to an attitude problem. Some here insisted that he must still play if required to fill out 5 on the floor, but I strongly disagree. He isn't "available," per what the coach says.

However, if you are in this situation, you need go to the scorer and say, "player A12 is unavailable, so he won't be re-entering the game at any point." If a coach is going to deem a player unavailable for a non-injury type situation, then he's done. Otherwise, he is exploiting the rules for his advantage and we can't allow that.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

if the coach says he/she isn't available, you don't get to disagree with them!

Ok, but the kid's not coming in later during OT after being "reinstated", right? Once the coach says he's unavailable, he's unavailable for the rest of the game?

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

Wrong...you don't get to decide that. That kid could have mouthed off to the coach in the huddle or at halftime in the locker room and the coach has decided the kid is done for the night...if the coach says he/she isn't available, you don't get to disagree with them!

Rocky, without being overly confrontational and stating that you are wrong, I will just say that I respectfully disagree. I think that there is a clear difference here.

A suspension is something that is imposed through the league office due to regulations of the governing body. A benching for mouthing off is a coach's decision. Those are often listed in box scores as DNP coach's decision.

I also believe that an official has clear rules support to tell the coach that he has to have five on the court, if he has five healthy and non-disqualified players. That is what the rules and case book both say.

But, hey, when you are the R, you make that call.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

Interesting! Suppose the coach said to the official, "This person is not available as a player", while the player himself said, "Yes I am"? Come to think of if, what if the player added, "And he's not our coach!"?

Actually we could go far beyond that. Suppose officials come to administer a game at a certain place & time between teams A & B. At the appointed time, team B shows up, as does team A and team A' -- that is, two groups, each claiming to be one of the teams that are supposed to play. What do you do? Seems like a similar situation to the one above, just on a larger scale.

My head hurts.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

My head hurts.

I love that gif!