Walton / Nantz's point - 6 fouls

[CJN]

billy packer had a take on this (i believe it is one of his more ridiculous statements)

"i don't know why a player should have to sit no matter how many fouls they have, maybe just add some kind of bonus for that player's fouls when they are over a number"

this was mid 1st half of the championship game

[Mountaineer]

Billy Packer can't even pronounce Billy Donovan's name correctly. I'm trying to figure out who Billy DUNovan is?

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by CJN

billy packer had a take on this (i believe it is one of his more ridiculous statements)

"i don't know why a player should have to sit no matter how many fouls they have, maybe just add some kind of bonus for that player's fouls when they are over a number"

In this great logic he made reference to the fact that players in other sports do not foul out. Hmmmmm........Integrate fundamental concepts from other sports into basketball...Brilliant!!! Let's give 'em all bats, Billy! That should cut down on the hand checking!

[just another ref]

Nantz seemed to think that this idea did indeed have some merit, but for this unique reason. He said something about the third set of eyes on the court needing to somehow justify its presence, and therefore, paraphrasing now, calling some cheap ones just to hear the sound of ones own whistle. Could someone possibly explain to him that adding the third whistle was intended to improve the quality, not the quantity, of calls that are made. Is this not like what the cops say about sitting out on the road in large numbers? This is not to give more tickets, it is to prevent more infractions. Having said all this, does anyone have any data on the average number of fouls in NCAA games, comparing 2 whistle and 3 whistle?

[MadCityRef]

Ref Magazine did a story last year on 2 vs. 3-man in NFHS games (Iowa vs. Illinois). Average was 1 more foul called in the 3-man game.

I see a P.O.E. next year about flopping. Saw a ton of it this year in NCAA games. It doesn't seem to work yet it's taught everywhere. Letting out a yell or moan when hit is an automatic no-call, although sometimes the kids get run over anyway. Need to find a balance.

[Terrapins Fan]

When I was coaching I expected my players to commit fouls. I told them if they didn't have 3 or 4 fouls at the end of the game, they weren't playing hard enough.

Giving the players a 6th foul would be the wrong direction for players, for sure.

[eastcoastref]

There is no need to go to six fouls. However, some officials -- at all levels from high school through major Division I -- need to learn to keep the stars in the game. In both the men's and women's Final Fours, there have been too many players in foul trouble, oftentimes getting hit with ticky tack fouls. If light to moderate contact does not create an advantage or disadvantage -- like the ridiculous holding foul on Georgetown's Hibbert when Ohio State was clearly going to get the rebound anyway -- then the officials really should pass on blowing the whistle.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by eastcoastref

However, some officials -- at all levels from high school through major Division I -- need to learn to keep the stars in the game.

Are you serious?

Are you an official?

That's the kind of statement that comes from fans, not officials. If you are an official, you need to learn that "keeping the stars in the game" goes against our training.

That's complete doodoo!

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by eastcoastref

some officials -- at all levels from high school through major Division I -- need to learn to keep the stars in the game.

What are you suggesting, exactly? What are you prepared to do to "keep the stars in the game"?

Nobody can keep stars in the game if the stars want to beat the crap out of each other. You can't ignore fouls or rough play. You can't ignore obvious contact that gives an advantage.

If there are two players in the vicinity of the foul AND you could call the foul on either one of them AND you know that one of them has 3 fouls, then I can see giving it to the other one.

But I'm not ignoring an obvious foul by the big guy just because he has 3 fouls.

[Old School]

Originally Posted by MadCityRef

I see a P.O.E. next year about flopping. Saw a ton of it this year in NCAA games. It doesn't seem to work yet it's taught everywhere. Letting out a yell or moan when hit is an automatic no-call, although sometimes the kids get run over anyway. Need to find a balance.

I don't need a POE for this. I'm not having that in my games. That will be an automatic defensive foul when you start that mess. If I'm looking at a no-call, and you yell or moan and hit the deck, automatic defensive foul. That will put an end to that. If you let it go on, things tend to get worse.

I think college could go to 6 fouls because at this level we are marketing the players. More playing time might be the different in a contract to the pro's. We certainly don't want a talent like Oden having to sit the entire 1st half because of two quick fouls. Also, the game is called a little bit tighter in the NCAA then in the NBA, and when you get into the tournament, it's one and done. I think 6 fouls for college is a good idea.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Old School

I don't need a POE for this. I'm not having that in my games. That will be an automatic defensive foul when you start that mess. If I'm looking at a no-call, and you yell or moan and hit the deck, automatic defensive foul. That will put an end to that. If you let it go on, things tend to get worse.

Exactly what defensive call are you going to make?

[JoeTheRef]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Exactly what defensive call are you going to make?

Pass interference. Offsides. Encroachment.

[Old School]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Exactly what defensive call are you going to make?

Block! Everytime unless I got a clear offensive foul. That puts an end to it too. Remember, you only get 5 and you just pick up 2 for flopping. You be headed to the bench and I send message don't flop in my games. Flopping is okay, it's the yelling afterwards that pi$$es me off.

[SWMOzebra]

Originally Posted by Old School

I think college could go to 6 fouls because at this level we are marketing the players. More playing time might be the different in a contract to the pro's. We certainly don't want a talent like Oden having to sit the entire 1st half because of two quick fouls.

I don't call collegiate and I have great respect for those of you who do, but to a lesser extent you get the same mentality at the HS level...little Johnny needs to play the whole game so he can get a scholarship to Duke, or Kansas, or wherever. Is it possible that many have forgotten basketball is a TEAM sport?

Part of what makes basketball the great sport that it is...is the strategy involved. So Oden picks up two quick fouls and sits the rest of the first half, the TEAM and it's COACH work strategy around that issue and win the game. I wanted Ohio State to win last night and I couldn't help notice that Oden stayed in most of the first half and was looking pretty tired by half time...and they lost despite him being in the game!

I know there are those who disagree, but I think collegiate level basketball is the highest level. The NBA is all about $$ and it makes it seem more like professional wrestling to me. I'm not taking anything away from NBA athletes because there are some that are truly amazing, but I'd rather watch college ball everytime. JMO, of course!

[Adam]

Originally Posted by SWMOzebra

Part of what makes basketball the great sport that it is...is the strategy involved. So Oden picks up two quick fouls and sits the rest of the first half, the TEAM and it's COACH work strategy around that issue and win the game. I wanted Ohio State to win last night and I couldn't help notice that Oden stayed in most of the first half and was looking pretty tired by half time...

Maybe that was part of the officials' strategy to help Florida win. Keep Oden in, it'll wear him out because he's not used to playing that much.