Warning!! Danger!! Annual Off-topic Baseball Thread '07!! Beware!!

[Mark Padgett]

Watched the cable special "The Ghosts of Flatbush". It's clips were somewhat redundant but it told me something I didn't know about the Dodgers moving to La-la-land.

If Walter O'Malley could have convinced NY city planner Robert Moses to condemn some rundown buildings in Brooklyn, O'Malley would have built a new domed stadium and the Dodgers would not have moved. Moses wouldn't do it - not because the buildings didn't qualify - but because he wanted to see a new stadium built in Queens instead.

Ironically, a few years after the move, Shea Stadium was built right where Moses wanted it.

Oh yeah - the special had some great insights into the hiring of Jackie Robinson. Apparently Branch Rickey wanted him and O'Malley would have been just as happy to not do it!

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

Watched the cable special "The Ghosts of Flatbush". It's clips were somewhat redundant but it told me something I didn't know about the Dodgers moving to La-la-land.

If Walter O'Malley could have convinced NY city planner Robert Moses to condemn some rundown buildings in Brooklyn, O'Malley would have built a new domed stadium and the Dodgers would not have moved. Moses wouldn't do it - not because the buildings didn't qualify - but because he wanted to see a new stadium built in Queens instead.

Actually where O'Malley wanted to put that stadium was in Prospect Heights and building the stadium there would have resulted in a pretty big urban redevelopment plan. At that time there was nothing but open space in Flushing Meadows, both Shea Stadium and the '62 World's Fair were built on the grounds Moses had in mind. I'm not the biggest fan of Robert Moses but it's silly to believe that O'Malley moved his team clear across the country because he couldn't agree with Moses & the city on where to put a new stadium. In fact, O'Malley was offered space in Coney Island to build a stadium, that land is now occupied by the Mets affiliated class A minor league team the Brooklyn Cyclones. What real estate developer O'Malley really wanted was to own the stadium and the ground under it (Moses wanted the stadium to be developed & owned by the city) and even more he wanted to buy into the huge real estate opportunity on the west coast. Moving the Dodgers to LA was an incredibly smart business decision by O'Malley and I suspect he would have made the move even if the city had agreed with all his demands.

BTW, it's interesting to note the proposed site of O'Malley's Brooklyn stadium is about where the proposed new arena for the Nets will be, owned by real estate developer Bruce Ratner. This project includes both high and low income housing along with the arena.

[Nevadaref]

San Diego
	IP	H	R	ER	BB	K	HR	Season ERA
G. Maddux	5.0	4	0	0	0	6	0	4.17
C. Meredith	1.0	0	0	0	0	1	0	3.33
R. Ring	0.1	1	1	1	0	1	1	3.55
H. Bell (H, 17)	0.2	0	0	0	0	0	0	2.19
S. Linebrink (W, 3-2; BS, 5)	1.0	1	3	3	2	0	1	3.12
T. Hoffman (S, 26)	1.0	0	0	0	0	1	0	1.85

Isn't there a rule that the official scorer can credit someone else with the win, if a pitcher is ineffective?

Would the above be an appropriate application? Linebrink walked two batters and then surrendered a game-tying 3-run homerun. Why should he get the win?

[Mark Dexter]

Rule 10.17(c) Comment: The official scorer generally should, but is not required to, consider the appearance of a relief pitcher to be ineffective and brief if such relief pitcher pitches less than one inning and allows two or more earned runs to score (even if such runs are charged to a previous pitcher).

[Nevadaref]

ATTABOY!!!
Thanks, Dexter. (and I mean that in the nonexpletive way! )

[Mark Dexter]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

ATTABOY!!!
Thanks, Dexter. (and I mean that in the nonexpletive way! )

It's not that hard when you know the website.

Pretty typical, though - the Georgetown grad knows the philosophy and the theory, while the GW grad knows how to get sh*t done!

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Mark Dexter

It's not that hard when you know the website.

Pretty typical, though - the Georgetown grad knows the philosophy and the theory, while the GW grad knows how to get sh*t done!

Ouch!

So what's the website?

PS Here's another example: the closer blows a three-run lead in the 9th, yet gets the win when his team pushes one across in the bottom of the inning.
Baseball needs to change this scoring rule.
LA Angles -----------------IP H R ER BB K HR
F. Rodriguez (W, 4-2; BS, 3) 1.0 3 3 3 2 0 0

[ChuckElias]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Isn't there a rule that the official scorer can credit someone else with the win, if a pitcher is ineffective?

Would the above be an appropriate application? Linebrink walked two batters and then surrendered a game-tying 3-run homerun. Why should he get the win?

Maybe b/c the only other person who would be eligible for the win would be Hoffman, and he'd rather be credited with the save. I don't know if the scorer talked to Hoffman about it or just assumed it. I know that official scorers will sometimes talk to a player after a game to get the player's opinion of whether a play was a hit or error, and then change the official scoring based on the player's input. Maybe this is the pitcher's version of that.

[ChuckElias]

Hey, is Julio Lugo coming out of his coma? Sox win big, Yanks lose big. Nice for a change.

[mick]

Ouch !

Kansas City 10 vs. Detroit 2

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by ChuckElias

Maybe b/c the only other person who would be eligible for the win would be Hoffman, and he'd rather be credited with the save. I don't know if the scorer talked to Hoffman about it or just assumed it. I know that official scorers will sometimes talk to a player after a game to get the player's opinion of whether a play was a hit or error, and then change the official scoring based on the player's input. Maybe this is the pitcher's version of that.

Should we adopt this mentality in officiating too? We'll go ask the player if he was fouled or if he traveled and then make that call.