TV commentators and the great georgeton travel incident...

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Ref in PA

You could also ask the refs to clarify something after the game. During the game, as has already been said, you are stuck with the rule knowledge of those out on the court. Some refs would be willing to talk after the game, but not during. When I am out on the court, I have to be confident that my rules knowledge is 100% correct. If a coach has an issue with the interpretation of a rule, he has two choices - wait until after the game where one of us will be enlightened or pursue the issue which will likely cost him a T or worse. During the game all are stuck with my current rules knowledge.

Can't imagine why you would want to stick around after a game to have a rules debate with a coach. I know I wouldn't.

The best action is for the coach to call the assignor.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Indianaref

I don't like it when coaches or others come to this forum to trash officials.

Me neither.

To smugly imply that the vast majority of your local officials are so incompetent that you're "forced" to carry a rule book with you to "assist them" is simply beyond belief imo. And then to have one of our own supposed officiating brothers agree with that nonsense?

There's nothing the matter with discussing a missed or blown call. That's happened to every official in the world, including every single poster on this forum, whether they want to admit it or not. You can also discuss what to do as a coach if you do happen to run into the occasional official who isn't very rules-knowledgeable. That happens also. However, when you indict complete officiating groups as being basically incompetent, and then try to justify that with a single incident involving a single official, well, you've entered the Twilight Zone imo.

I've never seen the North Cali officiating groups that he's talking about, but I really can't see them as really being measurably better or worse on the average than any other of the groups across the country. Some individual officials? Yes. Over-all? No.

End of rant.

[OHBBREF]

Originally Posted by Y2Koach

Here is a situation where I actually pulled out a rulebook. Tell me how out of line I am.

Way out of line .... keep reading you will so how far.

Originally Posted by Y2Koach

the ref again comes towards my bench and tells me "yeah, you really need to know the rules".

Originally Posted by Y2Koach

to the officials out there: What would you recommend I do in this situation?

Make note of what the official said and as others have said report him to the league and the assigning supervisor, they will address it.

Originally Posted by Y2Koach

So while the opposition is bouncing the ball, preparing to shoot his FT, I pull out my rulebook. Rule 8 Art 5 was pretty easy to find since its pretty close to the exact middle of the booklet. I read the rule to the ref: ANY PLAYER, OTHER THAN THE FREE THROWER, WHO DOES NOT OCCUPY A MARKED LANE SPACE MUST BE BEHIND THE FREE-THROW LINE EXTENDED AND BEHIND THE THREE-POINT LINE.

Originally Posted by Y2Koach

I tell the ref "I read the rulebook cover to cover once a week".

Apparently you do need to "LEARN THE RULES"
I will cite the rules for you feel free to look them up
NFHS rules
Rule 10 Fouls and Penalties
Section 4
Art 1
a) disrespectfully addressing an official
b) trying to influence an officials decision

Sticking a rule book in the official's face to show him up and quoting a rule from that book to make the official change their mind would qualify

WHACK AND AWAY YOU GO

I do not care how wrong the official is you are not going to pull out a rule book (by rule) and not get whacked.

[Ref in PA]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

Can't imagine why you would want to stick around after a game to have a rules debate with a coach. I know I wouldn't.

The best action is for the coach to call the assignor.

First, I understand your point and there is some merit in your advice. At least where I am, there is no guarantee the assignors will know a rule any better than the coach. So, do I want a coach going behind my back, complaining to an Assignor, and now the Assignor thinks I don't know the rule (when, in fact, I do know the rule and both of them are wrong)? I was just saying, if the opportunity presents itself, and it is done in the correct manner, I would prefer to settle the issue without involving the Assignor.

Where I ref, I know most of the Coaches by name and they know me. Sometimes I will see them in the sandwich shop after game, sometimes they stop by the locker room, sometimes they will be talking in the hall when the crew leaves. I want the coach to feel I am approachable in the right circumstance. I will always be respectful and approachable if the coach has the same attitude. So, if a coach wants clarification on a rule after the game, I will oblige him. I will tell him what I saw on a particular play, or my interpretation of a particualr rule. In that situation, I have no problem with the rule book being pulled out. If I was wrong, I can admit it and thank the coach for his help and learn from the experience.

Some of the coaches I know could have a good discussion, others would have difficulty getting past their pride and prejudices. For the latter, it would be best for them to call the assignor and not deal with them. I have seen some coaches (and refs) refuse to accept what is written in the rule and case book.

[Y2Koach]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I'll ask you a question, then answer this one.

Did it work?

Here's my recommendation. Adjust during this game, contact the assigner or someone else at the association to discuss the ruling the next day.

Did it work? We were allowed the position for the remainder of the game. We fouled several more times and got two long deflected rebounds.

I was more concerned about THIS particular game than helping the ref "learn for future reference".

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Ref in PA

First, I understand your point and there is some merit in your advice. At least where I am, there is no guarantee the assignors will know a rule any better than the coach. So, do I want a coach going behind my back, complaining to an Assignor, and now the Assignor thinks I don't know the rule (when, in fact, I do know the rule and both of them are wrong)? I was just saying, if the opportunity presents itself, and it is done in the correct manner, I would prefer to settle the issue without involving the Assignor.

IMO (and experience) if a coach wants to 'go behind your back' and call an assignor he'll do so, regardless of what you say to him. Once he calls, the assignor can:

1. tell him he's full of sh1t and shut him up

2. agree the coach is right (for whatever reason) and take it out on the official

3. decide he doesn't have the full story & dig further ....resulting in 1 or 2.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Y2Koach

Did it work? We were allowed the position for the remainder of the game. We fouled several more times and got two long deflected rebounds.

I was more concerned about THIS particular game than helping the ref "learn for future reference".

Varsity? JV? I'm just curious.
I'm glad it worked for you. Just don't be surprised when it doesn't. And don't be surprised if it backfires on you.

[OHBBREF]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

IMO (and experience) if a coach wants to 'go behind your back' and call an assignor he'll do so, regardless of what you say to him. Once he calls, the assignor can:

1. tell him he's full of sh1t and shut him up

2. agree the coach is right (for whatever reason) and take it out on the official

3. decide he doesn't have the full story & dig further ....resulting in 1 or 2.

Any assignor worth working for would do 3 resulting in 1 and 2.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by OHBBREF

Any assignor worth working for would do 3 resulting in 1 and 2.

I'm partial to the #1 type of guy myself, but I get your point.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

I'm partial to the #1 type of guy myself, but I get your point.

Me too.......

[OHBBREF]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

I'm partial to the #1 type of guy myself, but I get your point.

actually the best is #3 resulting in number 1 !

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

I'm partial to the #1 type of guy myself, but I get your point.

Wouldn't it be the #2 guy who'd tell the coach he's full of sh1t?

[JoeTheRef]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Wouldn't it be the #2 guy who'd tell the coach he's full of sh1t?

Then what would the #1 say??? Hey coach, go pi$$ off somewhere.

[socalreff]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Let's see......

The great majority of NCAA officials are terrible in your opinion. And the great majority of Northern California officials are also terrible in your opinion. But you? You're great in your opinion.

Well, I hate to break it to you, but in my opinion you might be just about the lowest, ethics-lacking, back-stabbing so-called official that has ever posted on this forum.

Unfreaking believable.......

Where do you get the idea that I think the majority of officials are horrible? I never said that. You love to take snippets and pieces and mold them the way you want. You'd be a great sports writer.
I'd like to ask you a question: If your partner has a bad game, do you tell him great job? So if you see a game on TV or live at a higher level is it different?
Critiquing performance goes with the territory. I've heard plenty of D1 officials talk about their bad games and screw-ups. I get observed on tons of games and get told what I can do better (and not just by the fans ).

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by socalreff

Where do you get the idea that I think the majority of officials are horrible?

Where? Here's just a few of your posts:
http://forum.officiating.com/showthr...02#post=393702

http://forum.officiating.com/showthr...97#post=393697

http://forum.officiating.com/showthr...52#post=393552

http://forum.officiating.com/showthr...86#post=392786

http://forum.officiating.com/showthr...90#post=392490

http://forum.officiating.com/showthr...82#post=392382

http://forum.officiating.com/showthr...77#post=392377

http://forum.officiating.com/showthr...60#post=389460

http://forum.officiating.com/showthr...29#post=388029

http://forum.officiating.com/showthr...31#post=299631

http://forum.officiating.com/showthr...96#post=299396

http://forum.officiating.com/showthr...69#post-297969

Your posts are right at the bottom of each link. Just scroll down a little and take a look. That's just from a quick glance at your posting history too. I can probably find more posts where you crapped on officials if you'd like me to. Just say the word.

I'll stand by my impression of you. You're just one sad dude when it comes to ethics and integrity imo.