Backcourt Call and Commentators

[CYO Butch]

Last night during an NCAA women's game, A1 was dribbling up the court and picked up her dribble with one foot in the frontcourt and one foot in the backcourt. A1 passed to A2 who was in backcourt, followed by a whistle for a backcourt violation. The next several minutes were taken up with the play-by-play announcer and the color analyst (an ex-women's NCAA player, but I don't know who) debating the call. One of them saying "I didn't think you could have backcourt unless both feet were over the line." This was followed by "No, I thought it was where the ball was located, and well, maybe it's where the ball last touched", and so on. They never did show any clue about what actually happened. Couldn't at least one analyst on TV read the rules, or at least take one of the quizzes that show up here? ESPN2 could do better if they even got some HS kid who refs rec leagues to clue them in.

[TriggerMN]

The fact remains that the officials blew the call, though.
3 point principle...both feet and the ball must be over the line.

[Sven]

CYO...,

I saw the play as well. However, I thought it was a case where, after picking up her dribble with one foot in the backcourt and the other clearly in the frontcourt, the player stepped with her front court foot into the back court, thus committing the over-and-back violation.

In any case, I completely agree that the commentators had quite a discussion about the issue, including a conversation that went something like this:

"Well, Lisa I'm pretty sure you have to have all three points over, both feet and the ball, in order to have a violation."

"Are you sure? I thought it was ball location. Here on the replay it clearly shows that while holding the ball she kept it in the backcourt."

The final comment on the situation was, "Well, I'm sure that's one the officials may want to review later."

Sheeesh! The over-and-back call was correct because the player was not dribbling. Therefore, no three point requirement.

Sven

[Marty Rogers]

Originally posted by Sven
CYO...,

I saw the play as well. However, I thought it was a case where, after picking up her dribble with one foot in the backcourt and the other clearly in the frontcourt, the player stepped with her front court foot into the back court, thus committing the over-and-back violation.

Sheeesh! The over-and-back call was correct because the player was not dribbling. Therefore, no three point requirement.
Sven

Sven, what code are you refereeing under?

[Barry C. Morris]

Originally posted by Sven
CYO...,

I saw the play as well. However, I thought it was a case where, after picking up her dribble with one foot in the backcourt and the other clearly in the frontcourt, the player stepped with her front court foot into the back court, thus committing the over-and-back violation.

Sven

I didn't see the play but if you make the call you're describing, the commentators would be talking about you.

If she steps with her foot in the frontcourt back into the backcourt, we have nothing because she is still simply in the backcourt. However, if she lifts her foot in the backcourt (while her other foot is in the front court) and sets it back down in the backcourt, then we have an over and back violation. Be aware of the difference because when it happens on the court, we don't want to have to think about it too long. I missed this call a couple of weeks ago in a game.

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by Sven
after picking up her dribble with one foot in the backcourt and the other clearly in the frontcourt, the player stepped with her front court foot into the back court, thus committing the over-and-back violation.

Originally posted by TriggerMN
The fact remains that the officials blew the call, though.
3 point principle...both feet and the ball must be over the line.

People, people, people. Have we learned nothing from Tony's backcourt quiz?!?!?!

Chuck

[Jay R]

I ref FIBA rules which has a different backcourt violation rule. However, if I remember the NCAA rule says that the three point principle is only applied when dribbling. Correct me if I'm wrong, but if that is the case, then the officials got it right.

[Int]

Correct for FIBA, this would be a violation.

NFHS/NCAA, the player had back-court status during the dribble and as soon as she picked up the ball she still had back court status (A player holding the ball with one foot in the BC and one in FC has back court status). No violation.

[Marty Rogers]

The dribbler (or former dribbler) still has to gain frontcourt status in order to commit a backcourt violation. If he picks up his dribble while straddling the line, he still has backcourt status, until he lifts his foot that is down on the backcourt. Then, if he puts his foot down again in the backcourt, he has violated.

You are confusing the three point rule for dribbler only. It doesn't end just because the dribbler picks up the dribble. It refers to a non dribbling teammate (for example) receiving a pass. If he is straddling the line and touces a ball with frontcourt status, then he has a backcourt violation. If player A1 in frontcourt passes to A2 straddling, touching division line, or totally in backcourt, then it is a backcourt violation.

[CYO Butch]

Originally posted by Int
Correct for FIBA, this would be a violation.

NFHS/NCAA, the player had back-court status during the dribble and as soon as she picked up the ball she still had back court status (A player holding the ball with one foot in the BC and one in FC has back court status). No violation.

That is the way I saw it. It is possible the she lifted her back court foot, but I sure didn't notice it. My take during the game was the the official blew the call but the commentators were a whole lot worse!

[Sven]

My bad...mea culpa.

Frontcourt not established. Hence not a violation.

I knew that. Darn.

[Blackhawk357]

Originally posted by Marty Rogers
The dribbler (or former dribbler) still has to gain frontcourt status in order to commit a backcourt violation. If he picks up his dribble while straddling the line, he still has backcourt status, until he lifts his foot that is down on the backcourt. Then, if he puts his foot down again in the backcourt, he has violated.

This is the most misunderstood part of the backcourt (over & back) rule. Marty has it exactly right, if you are holding the ball, straddling the line and pivot on your FC foot, you have violated (unless you move the non-pivot foot directly into the FC).

Blackhawk

[Jay R]

Sorry guys.

I should stick to FIBA rules. I had misunderstood the original quiz on backcourt violations. I am glad that is cleared up.