A&M/Memphis finish

[wildcatter]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

I don't agree that this paragraph implies what you're saying. I think you are inferring. The situations are different enough that I don't think this is a fair comparison.

I just don't see what's so hard about assuming that these guys got it right, even though we don't understand it.

You may be right - it's just trying to make a simple point.

You're saying if an official misses a call by blowing his whistle early, the time elapsed shouldn't be measured to the point where his whistle is blown - it should end at some later point as if the whistle was never blown.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by wildcatter

You may be right - it's just trying to make a simple point.

You're saying if an official misses a call by blowing his whistle early, the time elapsed shouldn't be measured to the point where his whistle is blown - it should end at some later point as if the whistle was never blown.

No. The case you quote is when the clock is started properly and then doesn't stop when the whistle is blown. In that case the replay is used to determine when the whistle was blown, so that the clock can be set to that point.

I'm saying that the case under consideration is different since the clock never started in the first place. So to say that the case you quoted implies that replay should be used to determine when the whistle blew doesn't seem to me like a correct interpretation.

I just think that when the whistle blew as opposed to when the ball hit something oob isn't really an important distinction. The ref blew the whistle for the oob violation, and was a little quick on it. The tape showed that the ball did indeed go oob, and that the time between when the ball was touched legally inbounds, and when the ball gained oob status was 1.1 seconds. I dont understand why that's so hard to grasp. (I;m not dirrecting these comments to you, wildcatter, but to others who seem to think they know better than 4 of the top officials in the country).

[wildcatter]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

I just think that when the whistle blew as opposed to when the ball hit something oob isn't really an important distinction. The ref blew the whistle for the oob violation, and was a little quick on it. The tape showed that the ball did indeed go oob, and that the time between when the ball was touched legally inbounds, and when the ball gained oob status was 1.1 seconds. I dont understand why that's so hard to grasp. (I;m not dirrecting these comments to you, wildcatter, but to others who seem to think they know better than 4 of the top officials in the country).

I see what you're saying - I do believe it IS an important distinction - normally. The ref was early on the whistle because he thought the ball was OOB earlier - whether or not this is this was correct should not matter on replay. It cannot be reviewed. The point at which the play should be stopped is when the official signaled/whistled it to be stopped. If he made a mistake, so be it. Just because there was a timing error does not mean that whistles do not matter.

Again, had the play been a ref whistling that a ball went OOB at 6.0 seconds, and it really went OOB at 3.0 seconds - well tough luck, the ref whistled it dead at 6.0 seconds. That's when the clock should stop - in general, time after that is a dead ball. No replay that shows differently should matter. The fact that the clock never started or there was a timing error does not affect the call on the court. The officials corrected the clock after the play is over - the play was over when he whistled it dead when it right after it first bounced and before it was truly OOB.

That being said, like I said in the last post, the officials handled it great in this case, considering there was a timing error. They could not tell when the whistle was (from the youtube clip, before the signal) - so they went with the signal/when the ball was OOB (which was roughly the same point).

I am constantly surprised how often officials get it correct within the last minute of a game on plays with very little time to work - I know working much lower-pressure games (not even high school or junior high!) that I would have probably screwed it up. What is even more impressive is that fans/announcers/former-players/players/coaches/refs watching the game have the benefit of multiple replays, multiple angles, and tons of extra time, and still somehow come up with the incorrect call.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by wildcatter

The ref was early on the whistle because he thought the ball was OOB earlier - whether or not this is this was correct should not matter on replay.

Where may I read that this is a true statement and not just conjecture?

[wildcatter]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Where may I read that this is a true statement and not just conjecture?

You can't! Read my post. You're right.

[JRutledge]

Wildcatter,

It is clear to me you are assuming there was an IW when there clearly was not. The official showed a tip to indicate that the ball was touched so the ball would be put out of bounds near the sideline and not the end line. Sorry, I am with JR; I think most of your post is conjecture.

Peace

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by wildcatter

I see what you're saying - I do believe it IS an important distinction - normally. The ref was early on the whistle because he thought the ball was OOB earlier - whether or not this is this was correct should not matter on replay. It cannot be reviewed. The point at which the play should be stopped is when the official signaled/whistled it to be stopped. If he made a mistake, so be it. Just because there was a timing error does not mean that whistles do not matter.

So you're thinking the whistle blew when trail pointed at the ball as it bounced on the floor?

Ah, I thought we'd decided that the trail was pointing at the player to indicate a tip. I thought the whistle came as the ball was past the plane of the oob, but hadn't yet touched the table person.

Hmmm, where's that video clip again? I can't find it!!

[jkjenning]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

Hmmm, where's that video clip again? I can't find it!!

...the link below is a very sad justification of the 1.1 and obviously not how the officials calculated it -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KpV95Z51hlA

I think this is the link you wanted:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YiI-4_0zOiE

...and in looking at it again, it does seem less definitive to me when the body motion was indicating OOBs - still a worthwhile discussion, imo. I am surprised that so many believe the official whistling/signaling OOB could be discounted when reviewing the play but would certainly trust their judment on the floor. I do think the discussion is valid.

Originally Posted by rainmaker

I mean look at NFHS case 10.1.8. Would you automatically have figured that was how to handle that rule?

Nope - thanks for the reference - I'm very surprised that time would be put back on the clock!

[Mark Dexter]

Originally Posted by jkjenning

...the link below is a very sad justification of the 1.1 and obviously not how the officials calculated it -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KpV95Z51hlA

I want to find the creator's rulebook and apply it for all of my games!