Head coach late arrival to game

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Mark Dexter

To clarify, any T charged (directly or indirectly) to either coach is charged against both (it doesn't count twice, however, in reaching the bonus situation). The more proper statement would be that if they combined reach the proper number of technicals, both will be ejected - not that both are ejected after one T on either one.

I wrote each not either. Perhaps you misread what I wrote. We agree, but you seem to think that I provided incorrect information (which I may have, but only because my NCAA knowledge is not totally current, not because I didn't understand the concept of what the rule used to be).

Originally Posted by Mark Dexter

Also, Nevada, I seem to remember seeing somewhere that co-head coaches were only ok in NCAA-W, but I can't find that in the book. Could you point me in the right direction?

I remember reading that as well and that is why I wrote what I did about it being specific to NCAAW, but upon performing a quick check just now I can't find it either. Perhaps it was in a past version of the rules. I'll have to do more research on this.

However, I can point out that both coaches are not allowed to stand when there are co-head coaches.
From the 2007 NCAA rules book:
10-11-1

A.R. 213.

A team has co-head coaches. RULING: Before the start of the game, the team shall designate who the coach with “standing” privileges shall be. Both coaches shall be assessed all direct technical fouls.

[Ref in PA]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

That's exactly why the Officials Manual tells you that you should verify before the game exactly who the head coach actually is. It saves any confusion later on in the game.

Exactly! In my area of the country, the R will introduce himself to both head coaches after he/she has checked the books at the 10 minute mark before the game. At that point in time, not only are you identifying the HC, but you also remind/review the usage of the coaching box. I also use this time to ask the coaches to use a signal for a time out request as well as requesting for a time out verbally. I also make coaches aware of any unusual gym circumstances such as a gym with little or no sideline. If you feel so inclined, this is an opportunity to set the ground rules for coach/ref communication during the game. These few moments can help game management later on.

[Mountaineer]

Originally Posted by Ref in PA

Exactly! In my area of the country, the R will introduce himself to both head coaches after he/she has checked the books at the 10 minute mark before the game. At that point in time, not only are you identifying the HC, but you also remind/review the usage of the coaching box. I also use this time to ask the coaches to use a signal for a time out request as well as requesting for a time out verbally. I also make coaches aware of any unusual gym circumstances such as a gym with little or no sideline. If you feel so inclined, this is an opportunity to set the ground rules for coach/ref communication during the game. These few moments can help game management later on.

Seriously? You really do all of that in your pregame? I could see if you are in an old gym that has a restraining line of discussing its usage but I'm not gonna spend that time talking about that or reminding them of the usage of the coaching box.

If the AC comes to the meeting and says, the HC is stuck in traffic or got stuck at work and is on his way - are you going to say he can't coach tonight? I'm not.

In this case - whack the guy for addressing the official in a disrespectful manner and move on.

[Mark Dexter]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

I wrote each not either. Perhaps you misread what I wrote. We agree, but you seem to think that I provided incorrect information (which I may have, but only because my NCAA knowledge is not totally current, not because I didn't understand the concept of what the rule used to be).

It was more of a point of semantics (and your way definately made more sense). You wrote 'if each gets a technical foul,' meaning head coach #1 gets T'ed up, then head coach #2 gets T'ed up. I read 'if each gets a technical foul' to mean that head coach #1 gets T'ed up and, by rule, that T is also charged against head coach #2.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Old School

However, only one guy is going to stand, and only one guy is going to be questioning my calls.....

I bet there are a lot of guys, standing and questioning your calls!

[Ref in PA]

Originally Posted by Mountaineer

Seriously? You really do all of that in your pregame? I could see if you are in an old gym that has a restraining line of discussing its usage but I'm not gonna spend that time talking about that or reminding them of the usage of the coaching box.

If the AC comes to the meeting and says, the HC is stuck in traffic or got stuck at work and is on his way - are you going to say he can't coach tonight? I'm not.

In this case - whack the guy for addressing the official in a disrespectful manner and move on.

Yes, seriously. We have been instructed in PA to remind the coaches about the box and what it is for. If the HC is stuck in traffic, then I can make allowances for that, but with a 7:30 start, that rarely happens, and in my experience, has not happened to me personally.

When I am at the table at the 10 minute mark, I talk with the timer and scorer, check the books, and then talk the the Head Coaches. I really am in no hurry to finish up and go stand by myself across the floor, waiting for the captain's meeting at about the 2-3 minute mark. But that is my routine. I think it helps me, especially with game management. I am sure each area of the country has their own routine they follow.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by Mountaineer

Seriously? You really do all of that in your pregame? I could see if you are in an old gym that has a restraining line of discussing its usage but I'm not gonna spend that time talking about that or reminding them of the usage of the coaching box.

If the AC comes to the meeting and says, the HC is stuck in traffic or got stuck at work and is on his way - are you going to say he can't coach tonight? I'm not.

In this case - whack the guy for addressing the official in a disrespectful manner and move on.

Good evening, I'm Juulie and this is my partner DeeAnn. You are each the head coach of your team? Have you met already? (they shake hands and introduce themselves). We need each of you to keep the coaching box in mind, (pause for each coach to affirm) and to help your bench personnel stay within their legal rights (pause for each coach to affirm). Any questions about this floor or this gym? Now I need each of you to ascertain that your players are all legally equipped and will remain so throughout the game (pause for each coach to affirm) and that you are helping them maintain an attitude of fair play and healthy sportsmanship (pause for each coach to affirm). DeeAnn, do you have any thing to add?

Good luck to you both, have a great game!

Under two minutes.

[Mark Dexter]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

Good evening, I'm Juulie and this is my partner DeeAnn. You are each the head coach of your team? Have you met already? (they shake hands and introduce themselves). We need each of you to keep the coaching box in mind, (pause for each coach to affirm) and to help your bench personnel stay within their legal rights (pause for each coach to affirm). Any questions about this floor or this gym? Now I need each of you to ascertain that your players are all legally equipped and will remain so throughout the game (pause for each coach to affirm) and that you are helping them maintain an attitude of fair play and healthy sportsmanship (pause for each coach to affirm). DeeAnn, do you have any thing to add?

Good luck to you both, have a great game!

Under two minutes.

You use "this is my partner DeeAnn" even when reffing with Padgett, right?

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by Mark Dexter

You use "this is my partner DeeAnn" even when reffing with Padgett, right?

Well, he gets upset if I call him anything besides Studmuffin, but I have a rough time choking that out, so I usually just skip that part of the talk. Besides in the games that we do together, the coaches all know him. Most have been tossed by him at least once.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Mark Dexter

You use "this is my partner DeeAnn" even when reffing with Padgett, right?

And she uses those "air quotation marks" when she says it.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

And she uses those "air quotation marks" when she says it.

insert smilie of Valley Girl gagging self with spoon

[wyo96]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

Good evening, I'm Juulie and this is my partner DeeAnn. You are each the head coach of your team? Have you met already? (they shake hands and introduce themselves). We need each of you to keep the coaching box in mind, (pause for each coach to affirm) and to help your bench personnel stay within their legal rights (pause for each coach to affirm). Any questions about this floor or this gym? Now I need each of you to ascertain that your players are all legally equipped and will remain so throughout the game (pause for each coach to affirm) and that you are helping them maintain an attitude of fair play and healthy sportsmanship (pause for each coach to affirm). DeeAnn, do you have any thing to add?

Good luck to you both, have a great game!

Under two minutes.

I have been reading this forum most of the year, just now decided to post.
I have been officiating MS, Fresh, and JV for the past 4 years, working on getting some V games. I have never had a good "speech" for the coaches meeting, but I really like yours. With permission I would like to use it during camps this summer and next year. Thanks to all who post on this site. I have learned and lot and had to think some situations through.

[mick]

Originally Posted by wyo96

I have been reading this forum most of the year, just now decided to post.

Welcome to the Forum, wyo96.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by wyo96

I have been reading this forum most of the year, just now decided to post.
I have been officiating MS, Fresh, and JV for the past 4 years, working on getting some V games. I have never had a good "speech" for the coaches meeting, but I really like yours. With permission I would like to use it during camps this summer and next year. Thanks to all who post on this site. I have learned and lot and had to think some situations through.

You can send $20 for licensing rights for the summer, and if it works out, we can arrange a long term contract, complete with permission to use the official B.O.O.T. logo. You are required to use the actual name of your partner in each game, though, in place of the word DeeAnn in the sample. Abrogation of this clause will cause your rights to be rescinded, and immediate return of all unused material will be demanded, with no refund of any deposits or fees paid.

PS Welcome to the forum!

[BillyMac]

wyo96: Here's my pregame meeting:

After intoductions and handshakes, I say, "Coaches, please be sure that your players are properly equipped and that they know how to wear their uniforms properly". Then I say, "Coaches and captains, my partner, Mr. Smith, and I will be emphasising proper sportmanship tonight".

Depending on my mood, I now go to one of two options:
Option #1: "We all (pointing to everybody in the group) have something in common, we all love the game of basketball. Please show respect for the game that we all love by respecting your opponents, your coaches, and the officials"
Option #2: Please note that my partner, Mr. Smith, and I are the only ones in this gym tonight who don't care who wins. Everyone else in this gym, the players, coaches, fans (I point to the crowd), and cheerleaders, want one of the teams to win. Mr. Smith and I don't care who wins. Please keep that in mind tonight as we make calls in this game".

I then ask my partner, the umpire, if he or she wants to add anything. Sometimes, in a girls game, to lighten the moment, I remind the captains that "if you're going to dunk, please don't hang on the rim, because we'll call a technical foul".

Notice that I don't ask for a "spokesman" captain. This was new for me this season. I'll talk to any player, captain or noncaptain, if they address me respectfully. Twenty-five years ago, there were captains or cocaptains. Now, there are tricaptains, quadcaptains, or once this season, quintcaptains. I've had colleagues ask if the "spokesman" captain was starting. This meeting was getting to be too complicated. With the coaches joining the meeting, the group got to be too large, especially with the loud music playing, so now I try to get the meeting over with as soon as possible.