Rule 4-40 - Screen [and forum searches?]

[Adam]

The thing to remember is an illegal screen may be illegal without contact, but it can't be penalized until contact occurs.
Similarly, illegal contact doesn't become a foul until there's an advantage or displacement. Just because it's "illegal" doesn't, by itself, mean it's a foul.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

The thing to remember is an illegal screen may be illegal without contact, but it can't be penalized until contact occurs.

Wrong language imo. Any screen is nothing until contact occurs. At the point of contact, you then determine whether the screen is legal or not. No contact---->legal screen.

[jkjenning]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

The thing to remember is an illegal screen may be illegal without contact, but it can't be penalized until contact occurs.
Similarly, illegal contact doesn't become a foul until there's an advantage or displacement. Just because it's "illegal" doesn't, by itself, mean it's a foul.

Thanks for setting me straight with all the replies - all very appreciated. Since 4-40 defines a legal screen, any screen violating that definition is illegal, so a screen from the backside without contact would be illegal.

This means that players should really be aware of the need to make contact with an illegal screener rather than worm their way around them... I guess that's similar to a shooter who contorts to shoot around a defender whose arms are extended over the shooter's space - the shooter should be aware of the foul opportunity and make sure to create contact on the shot.

[MJT]

Originally Posted by jkjenning

This means that players should really be aware of the need to make contact with an illegal screener rather than worm their way around them.

That is the only way they are going to get a foul IF the official knows the rules.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by jkjenning

Since 4-40 defines a legal screen, any screen violating that definition is illegal, so a screen from the backside without contact would be illegal.

That's completely wrong again. Any screen from the backside without contact is a legal screen. That's not semantics either. That's the rules!

[Mark Padgett]

Using the same logic as the original poster, if a defender swats at a shooter's arm but misses, it's a personal foul.

[Adam]

I'm seeing this a little differently now. I think we need to think about it this way, unless there's contact, it's not really a "screen." It's just players occupying space on the court. The screening rules are what make allowances for contact in certain situations and dictate who bears the greater responsibility. Without the contact, it can't be an illegal screen.

[Kelvin green]

How often do we hear "That's a moving screen!"... So what...

The rules tell you what a screen is and what makes it illegal. There are legal moving screens even if there is contact if done correctly. (Trailer on a fast break that just slows down)

As has been posted before go back to the fundamentals of basketball. Stop making this so difficult.

By the way if you referee the defense the illegal screens are easier to call because on the screens you know ho many steps the player has taken...

From what I observe in my areas there are a lot of less experienced officials who get too focused on the ball and not what play is coming next or widening their view and trying to anticpate waht is going to happen. Everybody know where the ball handler and ball ought to be going...

[jkjenning]

Originally Posted by Kelvin green

The rules tell you what a screen is and what makes it illegal.

I think the point being made to me on this thread is that the rules define a legal screen and do not define an illegal screen, therefore without contact you cannot have an illegal screen.

Originally Posted by Kelvin green

As has been posted before go back to the fundamentals of basketball. Stop making this so difficult.

We each relearn what others have learned so that we can "make it our own" and this forum is intended to be a place where an honest inquiry can be posted - once you know anything it is never difficult, but reviewing rules can always make you rethink what you thought you knew.
It would be nice if the searches for this forum were simple text-based searches because I did want to try and find the answer without putting anyone through a post about something which clearly would have been discussed, but oh well. As you seem to be suggesting, I will search for "fundamentals of basketball" - thanks.