Timeout during free throw?????

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by JoeTheRef

However, the ball was at the disposal of the free thow shooter (since he caught it.. ) and he can call the timeout.

OK - let's take a poll. How many of you agree that the player can call a timeout here?

[Nevadaref]

The Casebook play that JR cited should have been followed. The ball is no longer at the disposal of the FT shooter at this time, therefore he is not permitted to request and be granted a time-out. The official did not handle it correctly.

[JoeTheRef]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

The Casebook play that JR cited should have been followed. The ball is no longer at the disposal of the FT shooter at this time, therefore he is not permitted to request and be granted a time-out. The official did not handle it correctly.

So is the ball live or dead?

[Nevadaref]

I see nothing which has made the ball become dead. It was placed at the disposal of the FT shooter, at which time it became live.

The FT shooter clearly could have requested a TO while he had the ball, since he has player control, however once he loses it the conditions of 5-8-3 aren't met. Thus no TO request should be granted.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

I see nothing which has made the ball become dead. It was placed at the disposal of the FT shooter, at which time it became live.

The FT shooter clearly could have requested a TO while he had the ball, since he has player control, however once he loses it the conditions of 5-8-3 aren't met. Thus no TO request should be granted.

Well let's see...the ball was at the disposal of the FT shooter by 8-1. And 5-8-3a says we can grant a TO request when the ball is at the disposal of a player. By what rule is the ball no longer at the disposal in this sitch?

[JoeTheRef]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

Well let's see...the ball was at the disposal of the FT shooter by 8-1. And 5-8-3a says we can grant a TO request when the ball is at the disposal of a player. By what rule is the ball no longer at the disposal in this sitch?

That was my point as well Dan. If we put the ball down at the spot to resume play on a throw in, the ball is at the disposal, the ball is live and the offensive team can call a timeout without somebody actually coming to get the ball. So because the player doesn't have the ball in his hands for the free throw in this sitch, it still at his disposal.

[Scrapper1]

There's no longer player control, but does that matter to this situation?

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

Well let's see...the ball was at the disposal of the FT shooter by 8-1. And 5-8-3a says we can grant a TO request when the ball is at the disposal of a player. By what rule is the ball no longer at the disposal in this sitch?

The ball is no longer at his disposal because it is somewhere where he cannot go to get it. In other words it is not like a throw-in placed on the floor. In that case the ball is somewhere where a player from the team may legally get it. In this case the player clearly cannot go get the ball.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

The ball is no longer at his disposal because it is somewhere where he cannot go to get it. In other words it is not like a throw-in placed on the floor. In that case the ball is somewhere where a player from the team may legally get it. In this case the player clearly cannot go get the ball.

Where does it say disposal 'ends' when the ball is somehwhere the player can't get it?

btw, in the resuming play scenario the FTer can't legally get the ball.

How is this play different?

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

The ball is no longer at his disposal because it is somewhere where he cannot go to get it.

Consider a completley different situation, but one that is covered clearly by the rules and cases.

A1 is awarded 2 FTs. A time-out is then granted. After the time-out, the official is ready to administer the FT, but A1 is not in the semi-circle. The official correctly places the ball on the floor inside the semi-circle. At this point, two things are true:

1) The ball is at the disposal of A1
2) A1 cannot go get the ball without violating.

Seems to me your point is not supported by the rules. JMHO.
__________________________________________________ _________

Edit: Jeez, Dan_ref beat me by about 3 minutes.

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

Well let's see...the ball was at the disposal of the FT shooter by 8-1. And 5-8-3a says we can grant a TO request when the ball is at the disposal of a player. By what rule is the ball no longer at the disposal in this sitch?

Time-out occurs and the clock, if running, shall be stopped when an official:
ART. 3 . . . Grants a player's/head coach's oral or visual request for a time-out, such request being granted only when:

a. The ball is in control or at the disposal of a player of his/her team.
b. The ball is dead, unless replacement of a disqualified, or injured player(s), or a player directed to leave the game is pending, and a substitute(s) is available and required.

Well, the way the rule is worded, it certainly appears that as long as the ball is at the thrower's disposal, he should still be granted the timeout.

One question that I don't think is answered anywhere is when does a ball cease being at a player's disposal? I think the logical answer is that it ceases being at a player's disposal after it has left the player's control.

Thoughts?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

OK - let's take a poll. How many of you agree that the player can call a timeout here?

I'll say "no".

Don't want to risk the Wrath of Padgett.