The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Mon Mar 12, 2007, 01:04pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 555
Send a message via ICQ to bigwhistle
ncaa consistently ignored rule

I'm sure that Hank Nickols is ok with this...otherwise the officials would be callng it during this postseason. The rule where if a player goes out of bounds intentionally and then is the first player to touch the ball after returning to the floor is a violation was repeatedly ignored in all of the conference tournaments I was watching the last few days. THe player cutting across the baseline and going out of bounds to use a screen to get open in the other corner for the pass and 3 point attempt was seen over and over. It doesn't really bother me, since all the officials were consistent. My question is why even put the rule in the book if it is not going to ever be enforced. Was there a directive from above, or are all the "big guns" just so used to not calling this that they overlook it every time?
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Mon Mar 12, 2007, 01:23pm
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 30,463
NCAA Rules now

Remember the rule only applies when the player that runs out of bounds is the first to touch the ball. The rule is not the same at the HS level where whether they get the ball is an issue. I saw this several times as well, but none of these players got the ball. So it is not a violation.

Peace
__________________
Let us get into "Good Trouble."
-----------------------------------------------------------
Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Mon Mar 12, 2007, 01:31pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 555
Send a message via ICQ to bigwhistle
I know what you are saying Jeff...but I did see several times where they did receive the pass. That is what made me wonder
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Mon Mar 12, 2007, 01:33pm
Adam's Avatar
Keeper of the HAMMER
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: MST
Posts: 27,190
How exactly is "first to touch" defined? I've always wondered this. If they get back inbounds and establish position before the pass is released, are they ok?
__________________
Sprinkles are for winners.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Mon Mar 12, 2007, 01:37pm
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 30,463
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigwhistle
I know what you are saying Jeff...but I did see several times where they did receive the pass. That is what made me wonder
They cannot just receive the pass. They have to receive the first pass.

Also to be fair this is not something that many officials are going out of their way to look for. I am looking more for body contact, not just where their feet are. There are times even in a HS game where they barely step on the line and I pass on a violation. This is after all a judgment call. If the NCAA wants this called, they will show many examples on the NCAA Officiating tape. Then there will be no question how this is to be called.

Peace
__________________
Let us get into "Good Trouble."
-----------------------------------------------------------
Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Mon Mar 12, 2007, 01:39pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 555
Send a message via ICQ to bigwhistle
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells
How exactly is "first to touch" defined? I've always wondered this. If they get back inbounds and establish position before the pass is released, are they ok?
If A1 is the player going out of bounds while A2 is holding or dribbling the ball, and A1 is the first player (after returning inbounds) to receive a pass from A2, A1 is the "first to touch". If A2 first passed the ball to A3, who passed to A1, everything is legal.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Mon Mar 12, 2007, 01:53pm
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 30,463
Rule 9-4-1 says: A player who steps out of bounds under his/her own volition and then becomes the first player to touch the ball after returning the playing court has committed a violation.
  1. A violation has not been committed when a player, who steps out of bounds as permitted by Rule 7-5.8a, does not receive the pass along the endline by a teammate and is the first to touch the ball after his or her return to the playing court.

Peace
__________________
Let us get into "Good Trouble."
-----------------------------------------------------------
Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Mon Mar 12, 2007, 02:17pm
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,097
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge
Rule 9-4-1 says: A player who steps out of bounds under his/her own volition and then becomes the first player to touch the ball after returning the playing court has committed a violation.
  1. A violation has not been committed when a player, who steps out of bounds as permitted by Rule 7-5.8a, does not receive the pass along the endline by a teammate and is the first to touch the ball after his or her return to the playing court.
This rule has always been confusing to me. The endline reference above should be removed as it could occur elsewhere on the court. The same condition could occur on the sideline. In fact, I called one on the sideline on a fast break where A3 ran behind the coach while A1 with the ball continued to push, then A1 pass the ball to A3 who was then 2 full strides back inbounds, received the pass, didn't need to dribble and shot a layup. I reason A3 couldn't be the first to touch after intentionally running out of bounds. Not sure now if I ruled correctly on the play because A1 had the ball. Once he returned back on the court, A1 still had the ball, which now leads me to believe that A1 was the first to touch it once he returned inbounds.

I remember debating this rule at the meeting when they changed it and we couldn't come to a consensus on it's definition. The more we talked about it, the more confusing it got. Really have no idea what the NCAA is trying to accomplish with this one. NFHS did make it clearer. It's a violation the minute you intentionally do it.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Mon Mar 12, 2007, 02:23pm
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 30,463
I think the end line is used as an example because this is where it is most common to take place. I rarely see a screen set where a player runs out on the sideline.

Peace
__________________
Let us get into "Good Trouble."
-----------------------------------------------------------
Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Mon Mar 12, 2007, 02:24pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge
Rule 9-4-1 says: A player who steps out of bounds under his/her own volition and then becomes the first player to touch the ball after returning the playing court has committed a violation.
  1. A violation has not been committed when a player, who steps out of bounds as permitted by Rule 7-5.8a, does not receive the pass along the endline by a teammate and is the first to touch the ball after his or her return to the playing court.
What does Rule 7-5.8a say? I don't follow this rule citing. Is it saying that the endlines are to be treated differently then the sidelines?

Thanks in advance for your response!
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Mon Mar 12, 2007, 02:40pm
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 30,463
Quote:
Originally Posted by ATXCoach
What does Rule 7-5.8a say? I don't follow this rule citing. Is it saying that the endlines are to be treated differently then the sidelines?

Thanks in advance for your response!
This rule covers a player making a pass after a made basket.

Not sure why everyone is focusing on just the end line. The end line is used as an example.

Peace
__________________
Let us get into "Good Trouble."
-----------------------------------------------------------
Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Mon Mar 12, 2007, 02:51pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 86
Ok, real life situation -

Player A1 dribbling with the ball at the top of key. Player A2 runs out of bounds on the baseline (let's say one foot in bounds, one foot steps out of bounds for the width of the lane) Players A3 and A4 set a double screen for A2. A1 passes to A2 (A2's clearly back in bounds).

Is this a violation?
Is this what the OP is referencing? If so, I agree that it is never called, at least not against the Texas Longhorns - which I am not going to complain about. Go Horns!

Thanks again!
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Mon Mar 12, 2007, 03:07pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by ATXCoach
Ok, real life situation -

Player A1 dribbling with the ball at the top of key. Player A2 runs out of bounds on the baseline (let's say one foot in bounds, one foot steps out of bounds for the width of the lane) Players A3 and A4 set a double screen for A2. A1 passes to A2 (A2's clearly back in bounds).

Is this a violation?
Is this what the OP is referencing? If so, I agree that it is never called, at least not against the Texas Longhorns - which I am not going to complain about. Go Horns!

Thanks again!

WHat about the undershirt rule, must match the dominant color of the jersey...I see shirts that are illegal on tv each game....just wondering? Do they not make a big deal out of that....We were told at the NAIA level to make sure they leave and remove the shirt or find one that is legal???
__________________
Do you really think it matters, Eddy?
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Mon Mar 12, 2007, 03:30pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 18,016
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old School
This rule has always been confusing to me. The endline reference above should be removed as it could occur elsewhere on the court.
No, it couldn't.

The AR is saying that if A2 goes OOB after a made basket (note that this would be on the end-line), then A2 can return and be the first to receive a pass from A1 without it being a violation.
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Mon Mar 12, 2007, 03:49pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 944
In order for the player to be the first to touch the ball after returning from out of bounds, the ball must be passed while the player is out of bounds. Otherwise, the player is not the first to touch it inbounds, since the passer is still touching it and is inbounds.

Are you sure this is what you saw?
__________________
I couldn't afford a cool signature, so I just got this one.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
DH rule NCAA ggk Baseball 7 Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:12am
NCAA rule changes grantsrc Football 5 Sun Feb 12, 2006 03:17pm
What Rules Do High School Coaches Most Consistently Misunderstand? assignmentmaker Basketball 16 Thu Sep 22, 2005 09:08pm
NCAA rule for '05 ChuckElias Basketball 10 Thu Jul 07, 2005 03:49pm
NCAA rule changes Madine30 Basketball 5 Thu Aug 03, 2000 07:23pm


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:55pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1