ncaa consistently ignored rule

[bigwhistle]

I'm sure that Hank Nickols is ok with this...otherwise the officials would be callng it during this postseason. The rule where if a player goes out of bounds intentionally and then is the first player to touch the ball after returning to the floor is a violation was repeatedly ignored in all of the conference tournaments I was watching the last few days. THe player cutting across the baseline and going out of bounds to use a screen to get open in the other corner for the pass and 3 point attempt was seen over and over. It doesn't really bother me, since all the officials were consistent. My question is why even put the rule in the book if it is not going to ever be enforced. Was there a directive from above, or are all the "big guns" just so used to not calling this that they overlook it every time?

[JRutledge]

Remember the rule only applies when the player that runs out of bounds is the first to touch the ball. The rule is not the same at the HS level where whether they get the ball is an issue. I saw this several times as well, but none of these players got the ball. So it is not a violation.

Peace

[bigwhistle]

I know what you are saying Jeff...but I did see several times where they did receive the pass. That is what made me wonder

[Adam]

How exactly is "first to touch" defined? I've always wondered this. If they get back inbounds and establish position before the pass is released, are they ok?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by bigwhistle

I know what you are saying Jeff...but I did see several times where they did receive the pass. That is what made me wonder

They cannot just receive the pass. They have to receive the first pass.

Also to be fair this is not something that many officials are going out of their way to look for. I am looking more for body contact, not just where their feet are. There are times even in a HS game where they barely step on the line and I pass on a violation. This is after all a judgment call. If the NCAA wants this called, they will show many examples on the NCAA Officiating tape. Then there will be no question how this is to be called.

Peace

[bigwhistle]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

How exactly is "first to touch" defined? I've always wondered this. If they get back inbounds and establish position before the pass is released, are they ok?

If A1 is the player going out of bounds while A2 is holding or dribbling the ball, and A1 is the first player (after returning inbounds) to receive a pass from A2, A1 is the "first to touch". If A2 first passed the ball to A3, who passed to A1, everything is legal.

[JRutledge]

Rule 9-4-1 says: A player who steps out of bounds under his/her own volition and then becomes the first player to touch the ball after returning the playing court has committed a violation.

1. A violation has not been committed when a player, who steps out of bounds as permitted by Rule 7-5.8a, does not receive the pass along the endline by a teammate and is the first to touch the ball after his or her return to the playing court.

Peace

[Old School]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Rule 9-4-1 says: A player who steps out of bounds under his/her own volition and then becomes the first player to touch the ball after returning the playing court has committed a violation.

1. A violation has not been committed when a player, who steps out of bounds as permitted by Rule 7-5.8a, does not receive the pass along the endline by a teammate and is the first to touch the ball after his or her return to the playing court.

This rule has always been confusing to me. The endline reference above should be removed as it could occur elsewhere on the court. The same condition could occur on the sideline. In fact, I called one on the sideline on a fast break where A3 ran behind the coach while A1 with the ball continued to push, then A1 pass the ball to A3 who was then 2 full strides back inbounds, received the pass, didn't need to dribble and shot a layup. I reason A3 couldn't be the first to touch after intentionally running out of bounds. Not sure now if I ruled correctly on the play because A1 had the ball. Once he returned back on the court, A1 still had the ball, which now leads me to believe that A1 was the first to touch it once he returned inbounds.

I remember debating this rule at the meeting when they changed it and we couldn't come to a consensus on it's definition. The more we talked about it, the more confusing it got. Really have no idea what the NCAA is trying to accomplish with this one. NFHS did make it clearer. It's a violation the minute you intentionally do it.

[JRutledge]

I think the end line is used as an example because this is where it is most common to take place. I rarely see a screen set where a player runs out on the sideline.

Peace

[ATXCoach]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Rule 9-4-1 says: A player who steps out of bounds under his/her own volition and then becomes the first player to touch the ball after returning the playing court has committed a violation.

1. A violation has not been committed when a player, who steps out of bounds as permitted by Rule 7-5.8a, does not receive the pass along the endline by a teammate and is the first to touch the ball after his or her return to the playing court.

What does Rule 7-5.8a say? I don't follow this rule citing. Is it saying that the endlines are to be treated differently then the sidelines?

Thanks in advance for your response!

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by ATXCoach

What does Rule 7-5.8a say? I don't follow this rule citing. Is it saying that the endlines are to be treated differently then the sidelines?

Thanks in advance for your response!

This rule covers a player making a pass after a made basket.

Not sure why everyone is focusing on just the end line. The end line is used as an example.

Peace

[ATXCoach]

Ok, real life situation -

Player A1 dribbling with the ball at the top of key. Player A2 runs out of bounds on the baseline (let's say one foot in bounds, one foot steps out of bounds for the width of the lane) Players A3 and A4 set a double screen for A2. A1 passes to A2 (A2's clearly back in bounds).

Is this a violation?
Is this what the OP is referencing? If so, I agree that it is never called, at least not against the Texas Longhorns - which I am not going to complain about. Go Horns!

Thanks again!

[RushmoreRef]

Originally Posted by ATXCoach

Ok, real life situation -

Player A1 dribbling with the ball at the top of key. Player A2 runs out of bounds on the baseline (let's say one foot in bounds, one foot steps out of bounds for the width of the lane) Players A3 and A4 set a double screen for A2. A1 passes to A2 (A2's clearly back in bounds).

Is this a violation?
Is this what the OP is referencing? If so, I agree that it is never called, at least not against the Texas Longhorns - which I am not going to complain about. Go Horns!

Thanks again!

WHat about the undershirt rule, must match the dominant color of the jersey...I see shirts that are illegal on tv each game....just wondering? Do they not make a big deal out of that....We were told at the NAIA level to make sure they leave and remove the shirt or find one that is legal???

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Old School

This rule has always been confusing to me. The endline reference above should be removed as it could occur elsewhere on the court.

No, it couldn't.

The AR is saying that if A2 goes OOB after a made basket (note that this would be on the end-line), then A2 can return and be the first to receive a pass from A1 without it being a violation.

[Jimgolf]

In order for the player to be the first to touch the ball after returning from out of bounds, the ball must be passed while the player is out of bounds. Otherwise, the player is not the first to touch it inbounds, since the passer is still touching it and is inbounds.

Are you sure this is what you saw?