Did anyone see the end of the A&M vs Texas game tonight.

[Texas Aggie]

I'm clearly biased, but it was also clearly an intentional foul.

[cmathews]

well "evidently" not or we wouldn't be having this discussion LOL

[sj]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

They are allowed with the normal penalty. The best strategy I've heard is a coach telling his players to get the ball even if you have to foul to do it.
You're more likely to get an actual steal; and you're more likely to actually get the foul you're trying to get. And, you're far less likely to get an intentional foul.

But many times they don't go for the ball and it's not called. It's not called because officials are taught to be very careful about calling intentionals late in close games. So many that otherwise would be intentional are not called that way. So is a rule change in order to reflect the way it's actually called. It seems the POE approach isn't working. The rulebook official will call them but the game management official won't so does something need to be done to make it so that everyone ois on the same page. just an opinion.

[Adam]

Are you suggesting a middle ground in the rules?

[Snake~eyes]

I don't have a dog in the fight but a two handed jersey grab should be an intentional foul.

[sj]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Are you suggesting a middle ground in the rules?

I guess I'm suggesting that it's talked about as I don't know that I'm smart enough to suggest anything. : > ) It just seems like something that needs to be hashed out some more. Maybe a good comparison would be the elbow rule. It used to be a technical when an elbow was thrown with no contact. But refs sometimes would call nothing because they thought the penalty was too harsh. So they changed the penalty from a technical to a violation in order to have the action more consistently penalized. In other words they changed the rule to better match what the officials were thinking and doing. And rightly so I think in that situation. Now no one has any trouble calling the thrown elbow as it gives the official a "minimal" penalty to fall back on while still retaining the option of upgrading it if he wants. This might be a similar situation. With these late in the game fouls it's taught to error on the side of caution when calling the intentional because the penalty is more harsh than a regular foul. A good thought but it creates problems when we get too cute with it.

[tjones1]

Originally Posted by waenloteion

I wasn't going to post again but I feel I must. I am sorry I was rude...I know what you mean about fans that only gripe and don't care about reality...

Welcome to the forum. We certainly invite you to stick around if you wish to learn about the rules and discuss them. However, as you've as you found out, this isn't a place to complain about the officiating. Again, welcome to the forum...hopefully you'll stick around and learn a few things.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by iref4him

I thought it was an intentional foul too. But, how many times do we as officials not call the intentional. We are engrained to let the kids decide the game and sometimes we bend the role as not to be the bad guy. It was a smart play by Texas. Take a gamble. Most refs will do what they did. Call the common foul. Watch games and ask officials - most will say that I knew it was intentional but didn't want to call it.

If that is your opinion of most refs, then that is sad. I certainly am not one of those that is too scared to make the tough call when it is the right call just because it will be unpopular.
I consider the people that fall into your characterization to be weak, and I believe that they should quit officiating.

[Adam]

It's a coaching issue, and if there are officials who won't call this, then they need to have their hands slapped. But they won't. Regardless, coaches who don't do this right are taking a risk.
How many times do you see kids trying to swipe the arm of the dribbler just to get a foul called? When they do that, the miss about 55.783740184% of the time. Then, they get frustrated we aren't calling a foul and start hugging and shoving to make sure there's a foul.
If they make an overly agressive attempt for the ball, they're less likely to get the two worst results; nothing or an intentional foul.
Should the rules committee make a change because coaches aren't good at using this strategy?

I don't know what the middle ground would be. A third free throw, perhaps? Or maybe one free throw and the ball? How about awarding two points to the offended team and giving the ball to the fouling team as if the basket had been made?

[refnrev]

Originally Posted by sj

I'd like to hear some debate on this. Please don't take me asking about it for criticizing these guys because it isn't. So here's the statement.

1) The rules should be tweaked so that strategic fouls should be allowed with a lesser penalty than what is charged for an intentional.

_________________________________________________

Don't go there. Just don't go there at all!

[sj]

Originally Posted by refnrev

_________________________________________________

Don't go there. Just don't go there at all!

That sounds ominous. Do I need to be looking over my shoulder? : > )

[truerookie]

[QUOTE=Snaqwells]When they do that, the miss about 55.783740184% of the time.

Where in the H-E-DOUBLE LL you come up with that percentage?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

When they do that, they miss about 55.783740184% of the time.

Originally Posted by truerookie

Where in the H-E-DOUBLE LL you come up with that percentage?

My sources are classified.

[SmokeEater]

Our Association had a pre-Playoff meeting where we were told if you hear a Coach directly tell his players to foul then it was to be called intentional. When I questioned the fact that just telling the kids to foul does not fit the definition of Intentional, I was told that most times the foul will not be a legal attempt to play the ball and it is to be called as such. I just had to agree to disagree and do what they wanted.

FYI, I have only had to make this call 2 times in 12 games. Each time the coach would call out a color like RED and his player would run up and foul the opposition. Once was on a ball carrier and one was just a blatent body check to a girl running up the floor.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by SmokeEater

Our Association had a pre-Playoff meeting where we were told if you hear a Coach directly tell his players to foul then it was to be called intentional.

That was the FED interp a few years ago. It's been changed.