off ball contact

[Splute]

I was watching 6th grade AAU practice last night and noticed the coach teaching his player to physically keep the offensive player out of the paint. Watching the defensive player you would have thought he was going against a football blocking dummy. He was pushing with forearms, shoulders, basically anything he could do to hold him out. How much contact do officials allow (if any) on the off ball contact? Surely this would not be allowed in a game.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Splute

I was watching 6th grade AAU practice last night and noticed the coach teaching his player to physically keep the offensive player out of the paint. Watching the defensive player you would have thought he was going against a football blocking dummy. He was pushing with forearms, shoulders, basically anything he could do to hold him out. How much contact do officials allow (if any) on the off ball contact? Surely this would not be allowed in a game.

I'll call this as soon as I see it.

[Dan_ref]

Often the only experience a 6th grade AAU coach has in coaching comes from watching NBA games. The way you describe it none of this stuff is legal, he should concentrate on teaching them simple zones and rebound/fast breaks.

[Splute]

Excellent. I dont understand why he would coach that. I think I will ask him next time I see him. My son is in 5th grade AAU and share the same gym. How much hand checking do you allow? Just to the point of it affecting the players' ability to move "normally"?

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Splute

Excellent. I dont understand why he would coach that. I think I will ask him next time I see him. My son is in 5th grade AAU and share the same gym. How much hand checking do you allow? Just to the point of it affecting the players' ability to move "normally"?

If the coach is teaching hand checking as a defensive action to a bunch of 6th graders then he should be replaced.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Splute

I was watching 6th grade AAU practice last night and noticed the coach teaching his player to physically keep the offensive player out of the paint. Watching the defensive player you would have thought he was going against a football blocking dummy. He was pushing with forearms, shoulders, basically anything he could do to hold him out. How much contact do officials allow (if any) on the off ball contact? Surely this would not be allowed in a game.

Coaches can teach whatever they want. It's up to the officials to make the call. Off-ball contact is in the POE's almost every year, both NCAA and FED. Ball-watching is the major culprit in missing off-ball contact. This 6th grade coach knows he's going to get mostly inexperienced refs for his games and inexperienced refs tend to ball-watch. That's coach has learned from experience that his players can get away with off-ball rough play.

If you ref one of his games you know what to look for.

[Splute]

You bring up very good points BNR. In watching my son go from Park & Rec to this league, you would think they were stepping into the championships... But I think you nailed it with what the coach believes he can get away with. They do not start their first game until March so I have not seen them officiated yet.... just the Rec league.

[WhistlesAndStripes]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Coaches can teach whatever they want. It's up to the officials to make the call. Off-ball contact is in the POE's almost every year, both NCAA and FED. Ball-watching is the major culprit in missing off-ball contact. This 6th grade coach knows he's going to get mostly inexperienced refs for his games and inexperienced refs tend to ball-watch. That's coach has learned from experience that his players can get away with off-ball rough play.

If you ref one of his games you know what to look for.

You make a great point here. One of my fellow officials is also a Middle School coach, and as a member of our association, he knows which officials he gets on his games tend to ball watch and which officials will call the off-ball contact. He coaches accordingly.

[SWMOzebra]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Coaches can teach whatever they want. This 6th grade coach knows he's going to get mostly inexperienced refs for his games and inexperienced refs tend to ball-watch.

Despite the fact that he's coaching his kids to play this way, I can virtually promise that the coach will squeal like a stuck pig if an official ever catches/calls one of his players doing what he's taught them to do.

I don't catch as much off-ball contact as I should in the L position, because I'm trying to be aware of a perimeter player driving into the paint, where the defense is positioned, etc...but I definitely call what I see, whether it's kid's rec, men's wreck, AAU or HS.

[JRutledge]

Just put air in the whistle. I do not care what they actually teach.

Peace

[Splute]

Ha, Of course! I am glad to hear that everyone will call this. I do not want the kids to believe this is proper basketball form or conduct. If they learn to play by the rules, they will be better players.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Splute

Ha, Of course! I am glad to hear that everyone will call this. I do not want the kids to believe this is proper basketball form or conduct. If they learn to play by the rules, they will be better players.

I had an Adult rec league game yesterday, over-40 I think. Older retired Army dude started the 2nd half after barely playing the first half. 2nd play of the half he's defending in the post when a cutter comes through and he sticks an elbow right in the cutter's ribs. I had a whistle and he turned around in shock. Then he smiled and said "good call Ref". He was testing the waters and luckily I was paying attention otherwise he would have done it a few more times and it probably would have escalated.

[ChrisSportsFan]

Those are fouls indeed.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Splute

Excellent. I dont understand why he would coach that. I think I will ask him next time I see him. My son is in 5th grade AAU and share the same gym. How much hand checking do you allow? Just to the point of it affecting the players' ability to move "normally"?

In addition to officiating basketball, I coach soccer.

In my practices, I often used tactics that would be illegal in order to teach certain things. For example, I have a drill where the player with the ball must stay as close to a cone as possible (and maintain control of the ball) while a defender is VERY aggressive in pushing the ball handler around with shoulder to shoulder contact and is trying to take the ball away from the dribbler. The purpose is not to teach the defender to push but to teach the offensive player how to shield the ball from the defender and maintain control of the ball in the presence of contact. I wanted them to experience more contact than they'd likely face in a game so that when they did face it they wouldn't need to depend on the ref to call the foul.

I made the point that amount shoulder to shoulder contact we were practicing would most likely be called a foul by nearly all officials.

[Splute]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

In addition to officiating basketball, I coach soccer.

In my practices, I often used tactics that would be illegal in order to teach certain things. For example, I have a drill where the player with the ball must stay as close to a cone as possible (and maintain control of the ball) while a defender is VERY aggressive in pushing the ball handler around with shoulder to shoulder contact and is trying to take the ball away from the dribbler. The purpose is not to teach the defender to push but to teach the offensive player how to shield the ball from the defender and maintain control of the ball in the presence of contact. I wanted them to experience more contact than they'd likely face in a game so that when they did face it they wouldn't need to depend on the ref to call the foul.

I made the point that amount shoulder to shoulder contact we were practicing would most likely be called a foul by nearly all officials.

That is an interesting perspective. I will ask the coach why he uses this approach the next time I see him. However, I noticed the kids were getting very frustrated with this constant conact and that aggression then carried over to the other end of the court.