A First...and a not so good first.

[eyezen]

Well I just completed my third full season tonight with a class 3 (of 5) SB/VB double header. And I had my first (by myself or as part of a crew) player ejection. Some 25 seconds to go in JV game. I am new lead on a fast break, white A1 and black B1 with ball side by side, white A1 fouls B1 pretty good, but there was a play for the ball and they go tumbling onto the floor into the mat beyond the basket. I close down hard with the foul (almost on top of them) and out of nowhere comes white A2 and just tries to pile drive B1. Partner immediately has a whistle (throws the bones..bear with me) And I have to step in between B1 and a mess of others from turning into a melee. Cooler heads prevail.

We get the kids to their bench areas. I grab my partner to quickly discuss. OK what do we have? I got a foul on A1, two shots. He has a intentional on A2 two shots and the ball at the spot. I say now lets think about this for a sec...we have a foul, so the ball is dead (after the shot ends). Then you have dead ball contact which was pretty severe. It has to be a T if anything and in my opinion it warrants a flagrant T, but you had the second whistle so I'll leave that up to you. He's says yeah your right, flagrant T it is.

So we get the coaches together, explain what we have, eject A2, B1 shoots 2 misses 2, B2 shoots 2 makes 2, a division line throw in and a report to fill out.

Odd thing is the game was a good one, nothing to predicate that kind of behavior, a 1 point game at the time. Now B1 has a 3 point lead and the ball and go on to win by 4.

Varsity game comes and goes without a hitch.

[Red_Killian]

Sounds like you handled it OK. My only question would be, did you consider an intentional on the initial foul by A1? Despite making a play for the ball, if they both go tumling to the floor and into the mat beyond the basket, was there excessive contact? Either way you call the foul on A1, it sounds like A2 is still going to make his boneheaded play and I totally agree you handled that correctly with the flagrant on A2.

Just remember, you can have an intentional foul even though there is a play on the ball.

[Bad Zebra]

Sounds like you worked through it perfectly. The key was realizing that the ball was dead when the second foul occured. Everything else flows from there. This is an instance where slowing down and getting together as a crew usually yields the correct outcome. Nice job!

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Red_Killian

My only question would be, did you consider an intentional on the initial foul by A1?

In this particular case, calling it intentional wouldn't have made any difference. The technical foul after the personal gives possession of the ball to Team A, even if A1's foul is ruled intentional.

The intentional call might send a message, if that's what you were thinking about, but it wouldn't make any difference in how the play was administered.

[RushmoreRef]

Great job with a tough situation...they're tough because you don't get much practice with them, all you can do is pregame and think them over and you guys handled them well.

[Red_Killian]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

In this particular case, calling it intentional wouldn't have made any difference. The technical foul after the personal gives possession of the ball to Team A, even if A1's foul is ruled intentional.

The intentional call might send a message, if that's what you were thinking about, but it wouldn't make any difference in how the play was administered.

I totally agree an intentional on the 1st foul would make no difference on A2's actions or on the administration after the flagrant was called.

My point was both players going into the mat after the foul by A1 sure sounds like excessive contact, with potential for injuries and these need to be called as intentionals at any point of the game, despite the play on the ball. The message is a play on the ball does not give a player the right to wipe out another player.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by eyezen

Well I just completed my third full season tonight with a class 3 (of 5) SB/VB double header. And I had my first (by myself or as part of a crew) player ejection. Some 25 seconds to go in JV game. I am new lead on a fast break, white A1 and black B1 with ball side by side, white A1 fouls B1 pretty good, but there was a play for the ball and they go tumbling onto the floor into the mat beyond the basket. I close down hard with the foul (almost on top of them) and out of nowhere comes white A2 and just tries to pile drive B1. Partner immediately has a whistle (throws the bones..bear with me) And I have to step in between B1 and a mess of others from turning into a melee. Cooler heads prevail.

We get the kids to their bench areas. I grab my partner to quickly discuss. OK what do we have? I got a foul on A1, two shots. He has a intentional on A2 two shots and the ball at the spot. I say now lets think about this for a sec...we have a foul, so the ball is dead (after the shot ends). Then you have dead ball contact which was pretty severe. It has to be a T if anything and in my opinion it warrants a flagrant T, but you had the second whistle so I'll leave that up to you. He's says yeah your right, flagrant T it is.

So we get the coaches together, explain what we have, eject A2, B1 shoots 2 misses 2, B2 shoots 2 makes 2, a division line throw in and a report to fill out.

Odd thing is the game was a good one, nothing to predicate that kind of behavior, a 1 point game at the time. Now B1 has a 3 point lead and the ball and go on to win by 4.

Varsity game comes and goes without a hitch.

A wise man once said, "Without us, it's only recess."

GREAT JOB!

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Red_Killian

The message is a play on the ball does not give a player the right to wipe out another player.

Can't disagree with that!

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

A wise man once said, "Without us, it's only recess."

You're quoting Old School's "wise man" now?

[Junker]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

In this particular case, calling it intentional wouldn't have made any difference. The technical foul after the personal gives possession of the ball to Team A, even if A1's foul is ruled intentional.

The intentional call might send a message, if that's what you were thinking about, but it wouldn't make any difference in how the play was administered.

It makes a slight difference in where the ball is administered for the throw in. Depending on the amount of time on the clock, this could have been a huge difference. Great job of getting with your partners and talking out excactly what you had before going to the bench.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Junker

It makes a slight difference in where the ball is administered for the throw in.

I don't think so. You've got 2 possible scenarios:

1) Common personal foul on B1 followed by intentional technical on A2; or
2) Intentional personal foul on B1 followed by intentional technical on A2.

In (1), A1 shoots 2 free throws then any member of Team B shoots 2 free throws, then Team B receives the ball at midcourt for a throw-in.

In (2), A1 shoots 2 free throws then any member of Team B shoots 2 free throws, then Team B receives the ball at midcourt for a throw-in.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Junker

It makes a slight difference in where the ball is administered for the throw in. Depending on the amount of time on the clock, this could have been a huge difference. Great job of getting with your partners and talking out excactly what you had before going to the bench.

You may want to issue a retraction, Jeff.

[26 Year Gap]

Quote:
Originally Posted by JugglingReferee
A wise man once said, "Without us, it's only recess."

You're quoting Old School's "wise man" now?


It is "Just His Opinion".