How did you get so good?

[devilsadvocate]

Back in the day (before the discussion boards, before J/R, before JEA), how did most amatuer umpires learn of rules interpretations? Word of mouth, association training, clinics, etc.

For those experienced umpires, do you feel that access to the above mentioned resources would have sped up your learning curve? Do you feel that today's new umpire with two years of experience is better prepared than his 1970 or 1980 equivilant?

[PeteBooth]

Originally posted by devilsadvocate

Back in the day (before the discussion boards, before J/R, before JEA), how did most amatuer umpires learn of rules interpretations? Word of mouth, association training, clinics, etc.

For those experienced umpires, do you feel that access to the above mentioned resources would have sped up your learning curve? Do you feel that today's new umpire with two years of experience is better prepared than his 1970 or 1980 equivilant?

Eric, the discussion Boards and supplemental materials have helped, but IMO the number 1 reason why today's new umpire learning curve has sped up is do the availability of games.

I know it's taboo here, but referee recently did an article on the decline of officials. Today's new umpire is getting those good games because of the decline which means he / she is getting that much needed experience.

Years ago, there wasn't as many games as we have today. Most of us after HS ball played Sandlot. We played against local neighborhoods, etc. Also, at one time baseball was considered a warm weather sport only - Not so today. I live in the East and our season runs from March to the end of October.

The rise in youth summer / fall programs has also aided the new umpire.

In addition, the discussion boards can also be a detriment as well, especially when you get those threads that go on for ever without adding value to the dialogue. For those of us who have been on the boards for a while, we learn who to trust and who not, but the new umpire doesn't.

All in all, I would say that the increase in the number of games is the main reason why todays new umpires learning curve has sped-up compared to years past.

Pete Booth

[Heyblueguy]

I echo what Pete says, mostly. The best way for an umpire to learn quickly is to do games, not read about them.

There's no substitute for experience. When young umpires ask me how they can improve, I tell them to do as many games as they can, at any level offered. You can only learn so much from a book or discussion board.

But when you actually see it happen, it stays with you.

[devilsadvocate]

Before this thread goes too far, let me emphasize that the point of the thread should not compare "time on the internet" and "actual game experience".

In no way am I trying to compare skill on the field with knowledge of the rules.

What I am trying to compare are things like "When did you learn the force was removed when a runner passed a base, even if the runner did not actually touch it?" Things that are not actually spelled out in the rule book, but can be learned from "authoritative sources", clinics, and discussion boards.

A comparison: I have one season of umpiring under my belt. Joe, a local legend, has been calling games for 20 years. When it comes to calling the game (strike zone, judgement, game management) Joe is The Man! However, Joe doesn't have the internet. Joe has never heard of J/R or JEA or PBUC. Joe says that if a runner in LL leaves early, and tags back up, then there is no violation. Joe says that if you are in the bunting stance and you do not pull the bat back, it is a strike. When it comes to knowing the rules of the game, Joe is........like alot of umpires that have been doing it for 20 years, and have been doing it wrong!

Pete makes a great point. The more games you do, the better you will perform. Who would argue with that?
The more training you have, the better you will perform. Who would argue with that?
The more eductation you have, the better you will perform. The way I see it, new umpires have many more "educational opportunities" today than they did in the past.

Rick Roder made an excellent point (in his interview with eumpire) that 99 times out of 100 plays will be routine. So, for the most part, extensive rules knowledge doesn't come into play during the game. It's balls/strikes, safe or out. But for that 1 time that something unusual happens, the new bred of umpire, with resources at his disposal, will be more likely to get it right than the new umpire of 20 years ago.

[Edited by devilsadvocate on Dec 17th, 2001 at 09:19 AM]

[Heyblueguy]

Good points. I have often gone to the Internet and the various discussion boards when a controversial issue comes up that isn't in the rule book.

While I have learned a great deal from the Internet and the discussion boards in particular, there is a gigantic problem with discussion boards that has been discussed before and I don't know how to solve it.

I can ask a question such as "Does it take three strikes to make an out?" and get 67 responses with 67 different answers. Even when it's plain and simple in the rulebook, some don't agree with the rule or believe it should be interpreted differently.

So, in summation, it's hard to learn from the discussion board if the answer to the question isn't already in the rulebook. You get too many different answers, from various "Big Dogs." How do you know which ones to listen to?

[devilsadvocate]

The batter may hit the ball and the fly ball caught. Or a runner could be thrown out on a force, or he could be tagged out, or he may interfer.....

Your point is well taken.

When I first started coming to the message boards, I was often presented with multiple answers to a question. Over time, I learned which posters had opinions, and which had informed opinions.

I found that having access to "authoritative opinion" (J/R, for example) was the best source of learning. And I would have never known of the book without the internet and discussion boards.

[Gee]

Eric, you said:

"When it comes to knowing the rules of the game, Joe is........like alot of umpires that have been doing it for 20 years, and have been doing it wrong!"

Then you said:

"Pete makes a great point. The more games you do, the better you will perform. Who would argue with that?"

Wouldn't that be a contradiction?

All of the information now available, such as J/R, JEA, PBUC, the WEB, clinics etc are great resources for the new AND old ump, however the defining point is the person himself.

Joe above, doesn't want to get into that and never improves.
He just complains about the politics in his association for holding him back.

The guy that wants to move up, takes advantage of all these resources and moves up the ladder. G.

[Edited by Gee on Dec 17th, 2001 at 01:07 PM]

[PeteBooth]

Originally posted by devilsadvocate

Before this thread goes too far, let me emphasize that the point of the thread should not compare "time on the internet" and "actual game experience".

In no way am I trying to compare skill on the field with knowledge of the rules.

What I am trying to compare are things like "When did you learn the force was removed when a runner passed a base, even if the runner did not actually touch it?" Things that are not actually spelled out in the rule book, but can be learned from "authoritative sources", clinics, and discussion boards.

Eric all good points but an umpire may never encounter the aforementioned. In addition, look at all the threads on strictly rules throughout the various message Boards and there is a plethora of answers; some good, some bad and some just plain ugly. Hey wasn't there a movie starring Clint Eastwood, Lee Van Cleef and Eli Wallach.

The best bet for a new umpire is to go to a credited clinic without any bias whatsoever. Learn the various mechancis and pick a plate stance that best suits their needs, then do as many games as possible.

In addition, if one is lucky, have someone mentor you and receiver good honest feedback so that you can improve.

Sometimes the discussion boards spend way too much time on things that lets face it will never happen and then unfortunately the flame-wars begin and even if the thread was very imformative, it's looses it's luster .

The one good aspect of the "theoretical discussions" is to make one at least open up a rule book

An umpires bread and butter is their mechancis and perhaps more importantly their Game Managemet Skills. We need to do as many games (taken into account Work / family) as we can in order to learn and progress.

Pete Booth

[devilsadvocate]

I've never called a strike from my computer. In front of my tv, Yes, but computer, No.

[BLUE69450]

I AGREE THAT THE BOARDS MAKE FOR SOME INTERESTING READING. SOME ARE EVEN VERY INFORMATIVE. I DO AGREE THAT THE AVAILABILITY OF MORE GAMES HAS TO BE BENEFICIAL TO A YOUNG OR NEW UMPIRE. THERE IS NO BETTER TEACHER THAN EXPERIENCE. I HAVE AVERAGED CLOSE TO 200 GAMES A YEAR FOR THE PAST TWO YEARS, AND FEEL THAT MY OVERALL PERFORMANCE ON THE FIELD HAS BENEFITED.

[JJ]

I've been at it on the major college level for 15 years now, and in my opinion the umpires are better prepared now than ever before because of education provided at all levels of clinics nationwide. When new umpires can see mechanics demonstrated correctly they can almost immediately apply them to games they work. That lends confidence to their umpiring, and gives them less to think about while they work the game. Yes, there are a lot of opportunities to work, but those opportunities have been there in my neck of the woods for 20 years. I used to say to new guys, "When coaches call they'll ask you if you're available and if you're any good - if you say yes, you're available they won't care what you say to the other question." I've been saying that for 20 years - baseball is a great sport to get into for rapid advancement. You'll get more chances faster, and if you apply yourself and have any skill at all you'll advance. And it's true, the more you work the better you get...

GBA

[GarthB]

Those umpires who truly want to excel and move up always have found a way, and always will.

Before the internet we didn't just sit around hoping to get better. We went to camps, clinics, schools, and seminars. We read books, magazine articles and school work books.

It didn't take the internet for umpires to become excellent at their craft. We had some pretty good ones in the 30's and 40's.

The internet is just another tool that is used by those who wish to improve and get it right. If they didn't have the internet, they'd find another way.

Travel around the various internet sites, boards and pages. You will find the same names over and over again. Sometimes we get so involved we forget how few there are of us on the internet.

Don't get fooled into thinking that we are in the majority of umpires. We are not. Just like those before us who worked even harder to understand the game, we are a minority. Less than 1% of active umpires spend time researching their craft on the internet.

[Bfair]

While the Internet provides an excellent avenue for umpires to converse about different topics including rules, mechanics, and game management..........there is no replacement for experience.

Learning to umpire is much like learning to play the piano.
That is, if you take 10 piano lessons and don't practice what you've been taught, then you're not going to be any good. When you're not pleased, the answer is not to go take an additional 10 lessons to get better, but rather to better practice that which you have already been taught. Once you develop good habits from the first 10 lessons you've had, then you take more lessons (to learn more) and further refine your skills. What you've learned in first 10 lessons may now seem to be everyday habit, but you're improving and honing all the combined skills.

Don't expect overnight wonders because you've spent 5 days discussing a topic on the net. Don't expect not to make errors. While you have considerable time to make comments and decisions regarding issues on the net, you don't have that luxury on the field.

Yet, as you continue to practice that which you've learned about umpiring it will become routine so you make those decisions reactively. You'll even learn to make some decisions in amateur ball proactively. While the net offers tools of learning that were far more difficult for yesterday's umpire to seek out, there still remains no substitute for experience.

Getting them right on the net is not the same as getting them right on the field. Certainly the net IS a place to practice your learnings, but it's a totally different field from being on the diamond...........
The more you practice, the luckier you get.

Just my opinion,

Freix

[Mike M]

With only three years of game experience under my belt all I can provide is my opinion how the Internet has enchanced my skills as an umpire. When I made the decision to umpire I visited numerous sites and printed out dozens of articles on various aspects of the umpiring (I did not find discussion boards until this year). It is my belief that cumulative knowledege contained in those articles accelerated my learning curve considerably. But perhaps the biggest thing the Net did was expose me to a level of professionalism and love of the game that umpires have. As a result, I make every effort to be a professional as I grow and learn.

Once last thought: The "experience" passed along on the Net versus the "experience" acquired during game while not the same, certainly has made me a better umpire. Thanks to all of you will take the time to enhance the skills of the new guys on the block.

[Bfair]

Originally posted by Mike M

Once last thought: The "experience" passed along on the Net versus the "experience" acquired during game while not the same, certainly has made me a better umpire. Thanks to all of you will take the time to enhance the skills of the new guys on the block.

Mike, while I agree the knowledge and learning is available on the Net, the practice of skill is developed on the field.....and refined through experience........

Just my opinion,

Freix