Why mechanics would have mattered.....

[Chess Ref]

My partner and I are wrapping a BJV game. There is 11 seconds left in game. Visitors winning by 12. I am trail. Partner has a foul on home team. I move under basket lining them up for the free throws. Lined up , partner done reporting and horn sounds. Player has 5 fouls. Partner runs over to player who is standing by coach and informs player and coach he has 5 fouls.
We all stand around for about 45 seconds and partner goes back to trail position. I look at him and they say "what's up" . They still hadn't replaced disqualified player. Partner informs me coach is being belligerent and I should go ahead and administer the free throws. I give the ball to the shooter-he shoots-partner tweets and calls a technical foul on coach for not replacing player. I now switch with partner so I can deal with the home coach. They inform me my partner never told timer to start the 30 second clock-so they were not required to have a substitute ready. hence they believed there should be no technical foul.

So my questions are

1. I should have notified the coach/player of the 5 fouls ?
2. I looked everywhere for where it says there has to be an "official" countdown of the 30 seconds . Couldn't find it. I did find in the officials manual that the timer sounds a horn at the 20 second mark-but not much else. Anyone point me in the right direction concerning an official countdown ?

Sidebar-I find out afterwards partner had never had a player foul out before so he thought because he was the new trail he was suppose to-hence his running over and doing it. And my bad for looking at the clock and thinking come on coach send kid in and lets go home.

[tjones1]

1. Yes, non-calling official is recommended being responsible for notification; 2.8.4
2. 10-5-3

[JRutledge]

In my opinion I do not see what difference it would have made if no one told the timer to start the 30 second clock. Yes it is recommended, but that does not mean it is required that the non-calling official go over. Sometimes sending the non-calling official will cause more problems because the coach is more upset with him/her than you. Also both of you could have slowed down a bit. You should not be shooting FTs until the DQ'd player has been removed. This more like a case of not very good communication (with the table as well) and going too fast.

I bet this situation will not happen to you again.

Peace

[Chess Ref]

thank you tjones

Jrut... you are correct. Funny thing is one of my personal POE this year has been to slow down when something out of the ordinary is happening. It won't happen again. Table was a MESS from the beginning which is another thread that I don't have time to write-last HS games start in about 1 hr 18 minutes from now. A local school yea no traveling tonight for me.....

[mick]

Originally Posted by Chess Ref

thank you tjones

Jrut... you are correct. Funny thing is one of my personal POE this year has been to slow down when something out of the ordinary is happening. It won't happen again. Table was a MESS from the beginning which is another thread that I don't have time to write-last HS games start in about 1 hr 18 minutes from now. A local school yea no traveling tonight for me.....

If you think something is goofy, it probably is.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by mick

If you think something is goofy, it probably is.

The same thing goes for Mickey and Donald.

[mplagrow]

Originally Posted by Chess Ref

thank you tjones

A local school yea no traveling tonight for me.....

Does that mean you're a homer and you don't call traveling on the locals?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Chess Ref

thank you tjones

Jrut... you are correct. Funny thing is one of my personal POE this year has been to slow down when something out of the ordinary is happening. It won't happen again. Table was a MESS from the beginning which is another thread that I don't have time to write-last HS games start in about 1 hr 18 minutes from now. A local school yea no traveling tonight for me.....

Understand what I mean by saying this to you. It will not happen again because you have now experienced why things like this can get goofy. Now you own the rule and situation and you will probably always remember this situation. Sometimes you have to fall on your face in order to know how to walk straight. Hell, I have been there and had a similar situation happen to me. It has not happen sense because I fell down.

Peace

[truerookie]

[QUOTE=JRutledge]Yes it is recommended, but that does not mean it is required that the non-calling official go over.

Mr. Rutledge, clear this statement up for me please. When I look in the officials manual on page 37 section 232 On a disqualification the officials will use the following procedure:

1. the non-calling official shall notify the coach and request the timer to begin the 30 second replacement interval, and then notify the the disqualififed player.

Am I misinterpreting this?

[rainmaker]

[QUOTE=truerookie]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Yes it is recommended, but that does not mean it is required that the non-calling official go over.

Mr. Rutledge, clear this statement up for me please. When I look in the officials manual on page 37 section 232 On a disqualification the officials will use the following procedure:

1. the non-calling official shall notify the coach and request the timer to begin the 30 second replacement interval, and then notify the the disqualififed player.

Am I misinterpreting this?

It's a recommended procedure, because it makes everything easier and clearer. It's still the RULE that they have 30 seconds to get in the sub. Whether or not the timer actually sets the clock for that, and buzzes the horn is irrelevant.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by truerookie

Yes it is recommended, but that does not mean it is required that the non-calling official go over.

Mr. Rutledge, clear this statement up for me please. When I look in the officials manual on page 37 section 232 On a disqualification the officials will use the following procedure:

1. the non-calling official shall notify the coach and request the timer to begin the 30 second replacement interval, and then notify the the disqualififed player.

Am I misinterpreting this?

First of all any mechanic that the NF puts out is always a recommendation. There are things in that book your state or local association can decide to do on its own.

Secondly, this was a "recommendation" that was changed a few years back. That basically means that they might prefer you to do that, but in the real world this would be absurd to always apply in every situation. There are situations where the calling official might have called been the "good guy" in the game according to the coach and you do not want to send the non-calling officials that just passed on two fouls (in the coach's opinion). What we do around here is basically we take the 5 fouls to the coach if we made the call (in 3 man) because we are already going table side after all calls. Then if there is a problem or the calling official feels uncomfortable, then they will switch with the non-calling official. If the non-calling official also sees that the coach is using the 30 seconds to rag on the calling official, then the non-calling official can go over and "get them" out of there. Either way it goes, it is a "recommendation." I would never say to anyone you must do this because that is what the mechanics book says. You need to be open for the possibility that something can still go wrong with the official that did not make the call. Most veterans around here can handle that situation and it is better because they actually made the call. Last night I had to go get my partner because the coach used that opportunity to rag on my partner, but when I got over there, I had no idea what was called and it was clear an even more frustrated coach might have gone off on me. You have to be able to be flexible with this mechanic.

Peace

[BillyMac]

I know the correct IAABO mechanics after calling the fifth foul on a player, however, our local IAABO makes it an option. If I'm the calling official, and I report the foul to the table, and then run over to my partner (most of our games are two-man) and ask him or her to go over and tell the coach about the fifth foul, what impression does that give the coach? That I'm afraid of him? In most situations we allow the calling official to inform the coach. The only exception is when we believe that we can prevent a technical foul by having the noncalling official do the "dirty work".