First Time Varsity coach

[JRutledge]

Last night I worked a game with a coach that got his first varsity job this season. I had worked with this coach at another school and frankly I walked away thinking he was kind of a dick (on the court). The school he now works at is literally right down the street from where I live. I have worked their scrimmage there several years even before he became head coach. Last night I had the opportunity to finally work one of his games at the varsity level because of some major snow storm issues that cancelled almost the entire state on Tuesday.

I was the Referee of the game and for some reason I did not shake this coach's hands. I did not realize this at all, there were 6 captains, and I knew the visiting coach for years because of working his games. This was a conference game and the visiting team had just joined this conference because of some major realignment all over the area. I gave me regular speech and we get on with it.

The game starts and we come out and call 6-0 in fouls against the home team. They just were being more aggressive and even fouled a 3 point shooter before he came back to the floor (I called this foul). The coach asked in a very nice way about why I called the foul and wanted to know what the defender was allowed to do in that situation. I just listened and gave him and answer he did not get upset by.

Earlier in the games there were a couple of times this coach's assistants coaches were kind of chirping, but nothing that sparked much attention. Not a few minutes later after a timeout, one of the assistants on the home team comes to me right after a timeout about what he perceived was a hand check. I was at the huddle because I was letting them know of the first horn and this is when the AC said something to me. I told the AC, "I think he can do all the talking (referring to the HC). I know he has had to work hard and earn it, I was working some of his games when he was before he got this position." I said this in a very calm and unassuming voice. The HC in a funny way, "I do remember that, this is why you are holding it against me from what happen two summers ago." I responded with kind of a smirk and laugh and said, "I am sorry you feel that way, but I would not hold anything against your team. You guys are practically in my back yard, why would I have anything against you." This of course was all a private conversation between him and me.

Well after this conversation the fouls went from 6-0 to 7-10 in the first half. The home team took a big lead and held it until most of the game. They almost gave it away later in the game. The home team only won 2 games before last night I believe.

Well in the second half things got a little crazy. I have my first T this year on a player from the home team. I even go up to the home coach right after the T and say to him how I was not going to be shown up by a 16, 17 year old. The coach joked and said something to the effect, "I would have done the same thing."

In another incident the visiting coach got T'd up by one of my partners. This T was not at all related to anything having to do with events with the home coach during the game.

Later in the game after we have called a ton of fouls on both teams and the game was pretty much in hand, I approach the coach and say, "I am not such a bad guy am I?" He laughed and said, "I always thought we were fine, but until two summers ago, I did not know what went wrong."

It was an interesting evening.

Peace

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by JRut during game to Asst Coach

"I think he can do all the talking (referring to the HC). I know he has had to work hard and earn it, I was working some of his games when he was before he got this position."

I think a little unnecessary verbiage on your part. Opens the door for possible inappropriate responses.

[Adam]

What happened two summers ago?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I think a little unnecessary verbiage on your part. Opens the door for possible inappropriate responses.

I completely disagree. I made the comment so he would understand that the head coach would be the person we were listening to and it accomplished exactly what I wanted it to. His coaches did not chirp the rest of the game. The assistant coach should not be talking to us in the first place, so he was already on thin ice to begin with. Also I do not officiate in fear of inappropriate comments when they approach me.

Peace

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

What happened two summers ago?

I do not know. That is why I found it funny.

Peace

[RushmoreRef]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I think a little unnecessary verbiage on your part. Opens the door for possible inappropriate responses.

Sounds like a typical coach that has "arrived at the big time" in his eyes.

Had something like that two nights ago

Last year worked a game where the HC was a PITA all first half....AC didn't say boo...at half were waiting for the bench area to clear...they do but after we go to the table and are headed to locker room, AC (who had been fine) stops and turns around near the end of the court and says...."You guys are terrible, you can't tell me they only committed 4 fouls that half."

All I said is "Thanks for the input and we'll be starting the second half with free throws." HC was not happy with us and his AC....especially when I informed him that he no longer has his coaching box.

Had the same team two nights ago and there was a call that they could have gotten excited about.....I'm right in front of their bench and before anything is said, I hear the HC say to his assistant, "Remember, only I can talk to this guy!".

I had to laugh.... and I guess I got my point across.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I completely disagree. I made the comment so he would understand that the head coach would be the person we were listening to and it accomplished exactly what I wanted it to. His coaches did not chirp the rest of the game. The assistant coach should not be talking to us in the first place, so he was already on thin ice to begin with. Also I do not officiate in fear of inappropriate comments when they approach me.

Peace

I was referring to possible comments from the head coach. I couldn't care less about assistants. I would probably would have just ignored the assistant.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I was referring to possible comments from the head coach. I couldn't care less about assistants. I would probably would have just ignored the assistant.

Well the assistant was literally standing right in front of me and turned to make a comment directly to me. I do not think it would have been right to not acknowledge him. And I wanted to get a point across and I accomplished that point perfectly.

About the other comments this fits my personality. I listen to what coaches have to say and I do not want them yelling at my partners or me across the court. If they are cordial and calm I will listen to them. In many cases I use humor when appropriate or I will be stern when appropriate. I will even ignore when appropriate if a coach is not showing respect or has lost credibility with me or the crew based on previous actions during that particular game. I make no apologies for what was said or the circumstances. And I never worry about what their response is going to be. The official is holding all the cards. If a coach is dumb enough to make an inappropriate comment, then that is something they have to do at their own risk.

Peace

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Well the assistant was literally standing right in front of me and turned to make a comment directly to me. I do not think it would have been right to not acknowledge him. And I wanted to get a point across and I accomplished that point perfectly.

About the other comments this fits my personality. I listen to what coaches have to say and I do not want them yelling at my partners or me across the court. If they are cordial and calm I will listen to them. In many cases I use humor when appropriate or I will be stern when appropriate. I will even ignore when appropriate if a coach is not showing respect or has lost credibility with me or the crew based on previous actions during that particular game. I make no apologies for what was said or the circumstances. And I never worry about what their response is going to be. The official is holding all the cards. If a coach is dumb enough to make an inappropriate comment, then that is something they have to do at their own risk.

Peace

The assistant coach thing is a moot point. I'm strictly talking about the verbiage. What if instead of this response from the HC, "I do remember that, this is why you are holding it against me from what happen two summers ago." his response would have been "I do remember that, you cheated my squad out of a victory. You had it in for me."

Would that be a T'able response in your opinion.

[Big2Cat]

Were you at GBS last night? I am trying to think who in the area has a first year coach, and I don't do the Western Sun. Just wondering....

[Adam]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I do not know. That is why I found it funny.

Peace

I figured as much, but was surprised you didn't tell him the same thing.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

The assistant coach thing is a moot point. I'm strictly talking about the verbiage. What if instead of this response from the HC, "I do remember that, this is why you are holding it against me from what happen two summers ago." his response would have been "I do remember that, you cheated my squad out of a victory. You had it in for me."

Would that be a T'able response in your opinion.

First of all he did not say that. This is a moot point if you ask me. I consider that a moot point because it had nothing to do with this game. Also understand this I do feel officials have the right to respond to questions and comments from coaches. If he said that, then that is his problem. I cannot worry about what a coach thinks about something so far in the past and insignificant to me that he is worried about it. If I gave a T for everything that was implied, I would have two Ts every game at the very least.

As I have stated I do not know of anything that took place 2 summers ago anyway. Summer games are practice from my point of view and I do remember seeing certain teams, but I could not tell you anything about many summer games.

Peace

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

As I have stated I do not know of anything that took place 2 summers ago anyway.

Amazing, ain't it? Officials just forgive and forget. Well, forget anyway. Some coaches, not all, have memories like an elephant.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Amazing, ain't it? Officials just forgive and forget. Well, forget anyway. Some coaches, not all, have memories like an elephant.

That is really the point of the story from my point of view.

Peace

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I approach the coach and say, "I am not such a bad guy am I?" He laughed and said, "I always thought we were fine, but until two summers ago, I did not know what went wrong."

It was an interesting evening.

Peace

I've done this myself, in fact last week I said almost exactly this to a young HS coach I T'ed early in the game. It was near the end when the game was pretty much decided. It was like a huge weight was lifted from him, until then he had that "us vs them" chip on his shoulder. He smiled, then laughed and practically hugged me. I had to remind him to go back to his bench and not make a big scene.

btw, I would have viewed that "until two summers ago" comment as a huge red flag and definitely would have asked him what he meant in order to smooth it over and set him right the first time he said that. No sense letting him think you came in intending to screw him.

edit to add i agree with both JRs that coaches do not forget anything.