Ball hits the ref

[deecee]

she cannot continue even if it was a loose ball unless the defense caused it -- she ended her dribble -- she can fumble and recover but cannot restart another dribble.

fumble - dribble - fumble = legal
dribble - fumble - dribble = illegal

[Zoochy]

A1's action is not a fumble! As stated A1 passes the ball. A1 ended the dribble then tossed an errant pass. Then went and retrieved the pass (after it hit the official). Violation.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by deecee

she cannot continue even if it was a loose ball unless the defense caused it -- she ended her dribble -- she can fumble and recover but cannot restart another dribble.

fumble - dribble - fumble = legal
dribble - fumble - dribble = illegal

True, but this wasn't a fumble.

There's a specific case play (that's Nevada's cue) where A1 ends the dribble, passes toward A2 who moves away, and A1 runs ands recovers the ball. Violation. That's the same thing that happened in the OP.

[tjones1]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

True, but this wasn't a fumble.

There's a specific case play (that's Nevada's cue) where A1 ends the dribble, passes toward A2 who moves away, and A1 runs ands recovers the ball. Violation. That's the same thing that happened in the OP.

I'll provide the reference.

9.5
Situation: A1 dribbles and comes to a stop after which he/she throws the ball against the opponent's backboard or an official and catches the rebound.

Ruling: A1 has violated. Throwing the ball against an opponent's backboard or an official constitutes another dribble, provided A1 is first to touch the ball after it strikes the official or the board. (5-15-2; Fundamental 19)

[chartrusepengui]

what if the dribbler has not stopped?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by chartrusepengui

what if the dribbler has not stopped?

Then throwing the ball against the official or the opponents backboard is a continuation of the dribble (assuming the ball never came to rest in the dribbler's hand -- unlikely)

[ColeTops25]

Originally Posted by tjones1

I'll provide the reference.

9.5
Situation: A1 dribbles and comes to a stop after which he/she throws the ball against the opponent's backboard or an official and catches the rebound.

Ruling: A1 has violated. Throwing the ball against an opponent's backboard or an official constitutes another dribble, provided A1 is first to touch the ball after it strikes the official or the board. (5-15-2; Fundamental 19)

How come the above doesn't apply below?;

TOMEGUN: From our JUCO quiz:

A1 ends his dribble and cannot find anyone to whom to pass the ball, so to avert having a five-second closely guarded violation called, A1 intentionally throws the ball against B1. A1 catches the ball and starts another dribble. The official rules this a double dribble. The coach inquires about the call and the official informs the coach that voluntarily throwing the ball against another player is illegal. Is the official correct?

Sounds like the same play? With the obvious exception of the ball hitting the referee rather than a player.

[Ignats75]

Damn Scapper,

Where'd you find my yearbook?????

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by ColeTops25

How come the above doesn't apply below?;

TOMEGUN: From our JUCO quiz:

A1 ends his dribble and cannot find anyone to whom to pass the ball, so to avert having a five-second closely guarded violation called, A1 intentionally throws the ball against B1. A1 catches the ball and starts another dribble. The official rules this a double dribble. The coach inquires about the call and the official informs the coach that voluntarily throwing the ball against another player is illegal. Is the official correct?

Sounds like the same play? With the obvious exception of the ball hitting the referee rather than a player.

Nope, apples and oranges. Throwing the ball against another player constitutes a loss of player control as per NFHS rule 9-5-3 and case book play 9.5.3. An official is treated the same as being a part of the floor. So......throwing the ball against an official is the same as throwing the ball at the floor--i.e. it's another dribble. See NFHS case book play 9.5. NCAA rules are the same.

[cmathews]

Originally Posted by ColeTops25

How come the above doesn't apply below?;

Sounds like the same play? With the obvious exception of the ball hitting the referee rather than a player.

There is a very large distintion between the referee and a player. The referee is to be considered part of the floor, thus throwing it off of him is no different than a dribble. Another player is just that another player. There are some citations that have been mentioned above that clarify that once you stop a dribble you can't dribble again unless.........one of the unlesses, is that it is touched by another player.

or if you like, what JR said above....his typing skills are evindently somewhat better than mine, or at least quicker LOL

[ColeTops25]

Thanks for the response guys.

My thinking, which by rule is wrong, was that there seemed to be no difference. The intent can be absolutely the same, but the outcome obviosly different.