Couple issues from the Coach's perspective

[chartrusepengui]

Had the same situation here. Juco team comes in. School has "hired" work study students to do the book. Kid seems knowledgeable etc. At half when we came back out, the away coach approached. (I knew him from some camps when I had been coaching) He asked to speak with me. He asked if I had called a foul on his #15. I looked, and remembered the kid and foul because he was the only one wearing a headband on that team. I told him I did. He said that the "official" book didn't have any fouls on his #15 but his best player had 4. Also said that another player that should have had a foul didn't show it in the book - but admitted that his best player did have 3.

I told him that while I understood his frustration - and that I knew that I had called a foul on his #15 - I didn't know where they might have placed that foul. (like on his best player) Since I didn't have direct knowledge about where they placed it about the only thing I could do is to put a foul in the book for his #15 but I could not remove any from anyone else as I had no direct knowledge that the official scorekeeper had done anything wrong except not entering the foul for #15. He was not happy with the situation - but understood the delema of the officials. He was very gracious with us.

The second half - we went right to the table when reporting fouls to make sure they were placed in book correctly. Following the game we approached the AD and suggested that he might want to think about a different scorekeeper and explained the situation. The coach said that when fouls were reported, his guy verbally asked scorekeeper "15 - right?" but never actaully looked in the official book. Tough situation - but without direct knowledge nothing an official can do.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by steve33

Nice to know there are some intelligent officials out there who can just tell it like it is. I thank you. One last thing though, as bad as the officials were in Arizona and Texas, we recently played 3 games in Kansas, and all 3 games were, for lack of a better term, PERFECTLY officiated. So for those of you who ref Juco in Kansas, Kudos.

Does this mean that you think that all JC officials in AZ and TX do a poor job?

[chartrusepengui]

Had the same situation here. Juco team comes in. School has "hired" work study students to do the book. Kid seems knowledgeable etc. At half when we came back out, the away coach approached. (I knew him from some camps when I had been coaching) He asked to speak with me. He asked if I had called a foul on his #15. I looked, and remembered the kid and foul because he was the only one wearing a headband on that team. I told him I did. He said that the "official" book didn't have any fouls on his #15 but his best player had 4. Also said that another player that should have had a foul didn't show it in the book - but admitted that his best player did have 3.

I told him that while I understood his frustration - and that I knew that I had called a foul on his #15 - I didn't know where they might have placed that foul. (like on his best player) Since I didn't have direct knowledge about where they placed it about the only thing I could do is to put a foul in the book for his #15 but I could not remove any from anyone else as I had no direct knowledge that the official scorekeeper had done anything wrong except not entering the foul for #15. He was not happy with the situation - but understood the delema of the officials. He was very gracious with us.

The second half - we went right to the table when reporting fouls to make sure they were placed in book correctly. Following the game we approached the AD and suggested that he might want to think about a different scorekeeper and explained the situation. The coach said that when fouls were reported, his guy verbally asked scorekeeper "15 - right?" but never actaully looked in the official book. Tough situation - but without direct knowledge nothing an official can do.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Does this mean that you think that all JC officials in AZ and TX do a poor job?

I think this means that he was unhappy with the officiating that his team saw in AZ and TX, and was happy with the officiating that his team saw in KS. He never said anything about "all JC officials" anywhere.

We're all a little touchy over the last couple days. Why?

[steve33]

Just to answer everyone's questions, we are a JUCO Women's team based in Louisiana. The team we played in Texas was D-III Mountain View College. Although, I'd like to sidestep some of those officials in Arizona, they are ACCAC (Arizona Community College Athletic Conference) officials. And no, not all of the JC officials in TX and AZ were bad. Just over my last three years in the area, they haven't been historically good.

And by neutral officials opinion, I meant questions I could ask referee's with no prior knowledge of the teams in the area

[umpire99]

I was working a game one night when my partner reported a foul sometime in the second quarter. The coach was trying to get his attention, but was unable to. At halftime, my partner went over to the coach to see what it was he had wanted. The coach said that he had called the foul on number 10 and that he had not been in the game at the time. I couldn't believe my partner's reaction. He said, "You are right coach. Who should that foul have been on?" The coach, who was just as surprised as I was, gave him a number. My partner then went to the scorer's table and told them to change the foul.

In a different game we had a very young official scorer. After a couple of mistakes, the coach of the visiting team would ask me to come to the table to check to see if the correct player was credited with the foul. After a stern talking to from me, the scorer did a much better job for the rest of the game.

[Old School]

Originally Posted by chartrusepengui

Had the same situation here. Juco team comes in. School has "hired" work study students to do the book. Kid seems knowledgeable etc. At half when we came back out, the away coach approached. (I knew him from some camps when I had been coaching) He asked to speak with me. He asked if I had called a foul on his #15. I looked, and remembered the kid and foul because he was the only one wearing a headband on that team. I told him I did. He said that the "official" book didn't have any fouls on his #15 but his best player had 4. Also said that another player that should have had a foul didn't show it in the book - but admitted that his best player did have 3.

I told him that while I understood his frustration - and that I knew that I had called a foul on his #15 - I didn't know where they might have placed that foul. (like on his best player) Since I didn't have direct knowledge about where they placed it about the only thing I could do is to put a foul in the book for his #15 but I could not remove any from anyone else as I had no direct knowledge that the official scorekeeper had done anything wrong except not entering the foul for #15.

There was another thing you could have done. You could have checked the other teams book for total fouls on #15, if they where keeping their own book too. In other words, you got 3 sets of books. If the two non-official books matched and the official book didn't, I would change the official book to match the other two books.

#2.) If #15 was there best player, I would have done a little more investigation. Count the total team fouls with the number of fouls listed per player. If it was even, then some player got tagged a foul that shouldn't. This is in the absence of a 3rd book. Here's where I'm going to go into my judgement. It's rare for the best player of a team to pick up 4 fouls in the first half. The coach will sit hit him after 2 and they won't see no more action until the 2nd half. Since I know the kid with the headband had a foul that wasn't in the book, I assume the foul was placed on the wrong player. I would remove the 4th foul from #15 and give it to the kid with the headband. Team fouls are still equal. Explain it to the other coach as a bookkeeping error. Play ball.

[Texas Aggie]

Steve: go to gsoa.org and you should find an email address to the individual who assigned the games. You can address your concerns with him.