foul on the arm after release

[Ignats75]

WHAAAA?

If the ball is gone from the hand, how does contact with the arm affect the ball? Is there an invisible force field? Is there a real thin thread, like the wires to a torpedo? Is the air current from snapping the wrist necessary to get proper aerodynamcis? Is there an African Swallow carrying the ball?

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by MJT

Not being able to follow thru does affect the shot.

As I mentioned earlier, you may recall , "Not if the shot has already been released." Once the ball is out of your hand, there is nothing else that you can do it to affect its flight. The path that your arm follows (or doesn't follow) after the release is merely evidence that you used a proper motion before the release. It doesn't actually do anything for the trajectory of the ball.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by MJT

100% agree!!! Not being able to follow thru does affect the shot. Why else would coaches at ALL level preach about a great follow thru. Think of how it affects you in golf. It is similar to why a player will change his follow thru to do a different type of shot.

The reason they teach you to follow thru is because of the effect on the point of release, (or point of impact), not what happens after the ball is gone. Are you saying that you can affect the ball after it is gone, like remote-control? Of course not. If a golfer doesn't think about doing a proper follow-thru, the clubhead speed will actually be slowing down at impact, resulting in a poor shot. The same with a shooter. However, if a shooter is doing all the right things, including attempting to do a proper follow-thru, the ball will leave the hand at the proper speed and trajectory, and it doesn't matter what happens to the hand or arm after that. So if there is contact after the ball leaves the hand, I might be inclined to let it go, where if that same contact occures before the ball leaves the hand, I would call a foul.

That said, I also agree with Bob - if I see something that might affect later shots - perhaps making the shooter flinch to avoid the contact - I would call that even though it happened after the ball has left. It's all judgement.

[IREFU2]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I concur. I called a foul Saturday on 3-pointer when the defender smack the shooters arm right after the release.

I am more likely to call this type of foul on a jump shot than I would for a lay-up or jump hook in the paint.

Yes, that was a good call, not to mention the goaltending afterwards that I caught!

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by IREFU2

Yes, that was a good call, not to mention the goaltending afterwards that I caught!

Different play. The BI you called was on a play where the shooter was hit in the head.

The play I'm referring to in this thread was when I was in the Slot opposite table-side and #10 shot a 3 from the corner.

[swkansasref33]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

If the ball was out of your hands it didn't do anything to change the shot.

yea it can. look at any sport where you throw/shoot a ball. if you dont follow through, you don't get good results... not following through does effect the shot... ask anyone who plays basketball or baseball. if a pitcher does not follow through after he/she releases the ball, the ball is not going to be as accurate, and sometimes is nowhere near where it was intended to be

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by swkansasref33

yea it can.

no it can't. The ball is gone. Nothing you do to change your follow thru after the ball is gone will change where the ball is going

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by swkansasref33

yea it can. look at any sport where you throw/shoot a ball. if you dont follow through, you don't get good results... not following through does effect the shot... ask anyone who plays basketball or baseball. if a pitcher does not follow through after he/she releases the ball, the ball is not going to be as accurate, and sometimes is nowhere near where it was intended to be

That's because, in order to "not follow through", the pitcher must change something before the ball is released.

[blindzebra]

Originally Posted by SmokeEater

It sure will. Try it sometime and see, as a shooter when I got hit just after release and was not able to extend my arm fully it would change the shot. I don't pretend to know all the physics of how the shot really works but I can say with absolute confidence that not being able to follow through did something.

What you are describing is reacting to the pressure of the defender coming at you and not the contact after release.

Once the ball is gone, NOTHING you do or have done to you changes the shot.

The change in the shot is the same as someone yelling during your downswing in golf, you tense up and that changes your shot. If someone yells, "You the man, Tiger!" After the shot, you think that affects the shot?

[David B]

Originally Posted by blindzebra

What you are describing is reacting to the pressure of the defender coming at you and not the contact after release.

Once the ball is gone, NOTHING you do or have done to you changes the shot.

The change in the shot is the same as someone yelling during your downswing in golf, you tense up and that changes your shot. If someone yells, "You the man, Tiger!" After the shot, you think that affects the shot?

But the contact can affect the players next shot.

Say the jump shooter shoots and gets hit after the shot and no foul is called. The next time that jump shooter starts to shoot and sees the defender coming at him he might change his shot trying to get it off quicker because in his mind if the player hits his arm, no foul is going to be called.

Sure its mental, but that's a big part of the game with the jump shooter. Its all about rhythm and anything that affects it can change the shot.

Thanks
David

[Adam]

That's why we get paid to use judgment.

[jmkbball]

Originally Posted by blindzebra

What you are describing is reacting to the pressure of the defender coming at you and not the contact after release.

Once the ball is gone, NOTHING you do or have done to you changes the shot.

The change in the shot is the same as someone yelling during your downswing in golf, you tense up and that changes your shot. If someone yells, "You the man, Tiger!" After the shot, you think that affects the shot?

Whenever someone yells "you the man, Tiger!", either before or after a golf shot, its important to turn to them and say "Here's your sign".

[dblref]

Originally Posted by MJT

100% agree!!! Not being able to follow thru does affect the shot. Why else would coaches at ALL level preach about a great follow thru. Think of how it affects you in golf. It is similar to why a player will change his follow thru to do a different type of shot in golf.

I disagree 100%. Once the ball has completely left your hand, it doesn't matter how much you follow thru, because you are no longer in touch with the ball. You can't correct something you can't touch.

[blindzebra]

Originally Posted by David B

But the contact can affect the players next shot.

Say the jump shooter shoots and gets hit after the shot and no foul is called. The next time that jump shooter starts to shoot and sees the defender coming at him he might change his shot trying to get it off quicker because in his mind if the player hits his arm, no foul is going to be called.

Sure its mental, but that's a big part of the game with the jump shooter. Its all about rhythm and anything that affects it can change the shot.

Thanks
David

You must be better than me, if you can predict a future disadvantaged situation...our job is to judge the play at hand, not the play 2 minutes from now.

If the contact did not hinder the shot or the landing, and doesn't fall under rough play, it is incidental contact. 2 minutes from now, we should be applying those exact same things.

[SmokeEater]

I will Grant you all this... Contact with the shooters arm preventing follow through does NOT affect the trajectory of the ball, ..... It most certainly does affect the overall shot however.