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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 10, 2005, 12:37pm
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Hi,

I'm a non-ref fan, and I've always wondered what the rule is when someone makes illegal contact (on the hand or elbow or body) with the shooter after the ball has already been released.

I can't tell if it's called consistently one way or another. In some sense, it seems to me that it shouldn't be a shooting foul, since the contact could not affect the shot. But it's often called as such.

This came up Saturday in the UConn-Tennessee women's game in the final seconds, when Ann Strother got hit on the body after releasing a three-point attempt. It almost looked to me like it should have been a foul on the box out, but they gave her three shots.

thanks much! I've enjoyed poking around here to learn more about the rules!
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Old Mon Jan 10, 2005, 12:40pm
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The shooter is still an "Airborne shooter" until they reach the floor. But you are not going to see a foul just because there is contact. You will more likely see a foul called if the shooter is prevented to come down normally.

This applies to both NF and NCAA games.

Peace
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Old Mon Jan 10, 2005, 12:43pm
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a shooter remains a shooter until they land. this is your guideline as to freethrows or oob. sometimes contact on the arm after the shot is gone, so long as it doesn't interfere with the follow thru, is considered incidental. i believe most refs will protect the shooter when they are stretched out "in the act", from a hard block out.
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Old Mon Jan 10, 2005, 12:45pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by JRutledge
The shooter is still an "Airborne shooter" until they reach the floor. But you are not going to see a foul just because there is contact. You will more likely see a foul called if the shooter is prevented to come down normally.

This applies to both NF and NCAA games.

Peace
I'm not 100% sure, but I think the NCAA men's rule is different. I think they don't call this PC if the contact happens after the shot is away.
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Old Mon Jan 10, 2005, 12:54pm
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Wink

There are numerous concepts that you mention here. Airborne shooters are still in the act of shooting until they return to the floor. If contact occurs, it may or may not be called unless, as mentioned above, the player is displaced or, more obviously, knocked down. In this case, if the contact occured prior to the player landing, it is a shooting foul and the appropriate number of FT's are awarded.

You also mention contact with the hands and arms during a shot. This is often more of a judgement call. Obvious hard fouls are easy to call. What we look at is the players positions (ref the defense is talked about). If the defense has good position, and uses verticality, there may be contact often time initiated by the offense. A very common no-call. Another thing to remember, the hand, in contact with the ball, is considered part of the ball so, if the ball is blocked and there is contact with the hand that is in contact with the ball, there should be nothing. Then, when there is contact that may or may not be initiated by the offense, we may pass on it if it is in our judgement incidental (a word we use when we miss it).
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Old Mon Jan 10, 2005, 12:59pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by rainmaker


I'm not 100% sure, but I think the NCAA men's rule is different. I think they don't call this PC if the contact happens after the shot is away.
The only difference is that they consider a PC foul differently if the ball is released or not before contact. The basket is counted if contact happens after the release of the ball. But the same protection is provided for the shooter as it relates to an "Airborne shooter." And you still can be called for a PC Foul after the release of the shot as you do in all levels of amateur basketball (NF and both NCAA sides).

Peace
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Old Mon Jan 10, 2005, 01:04pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by JRutledge
Quote:
Originally posted by rainmaker
I'm not 100% sure, but I think the NCAA men's rule is different. I think they don't call this PC if the contact happens after the shot is away.
The only difference is that they consider a PC foul differently if the ball is released or not before contact. The basket is counted if contact happens after the release of the ball. But the same protection is provided for the shooter as it relates to an "Airborne shooter." And you still can be called for a PC Foul after the release of the shot as you do in all levels of amateur basketball (NF and both NCAA sides).

Peace
Duh. I totally messed this up. You're right about the airborne shooter. You're also right that it may not be called if it's not severe. But if it's anything, and the shooter is still in the air, then it's a shooting foul, and that is true for Fed and NCAA.
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Old Mon Jan 10, 2005, 01:48pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by rainmaker
Quote:
Originally posted by JRutledge
Quote:
Originally posted by rainmaker
I'm not 100% sure, but I think the NCAA men's rule is different. I think they don't call this PC if the contact happens after the shot is away.
The only difference is that they consider a PC foul differently if the ball is released or not before contact. The basket is counted if contact happens after the release of the ball. But the same protection is provided for the shooter as it relates to an "Airborne shooter." And you still can be called for a PC Foul after the release of the shot as you do in all levels of amateur basketball (NF and both NCAA sides).

Peace
Duh. I totally messed this up. You're right about the airborne shooter. You're also right that it may not be called if it's not severe. But if it's anything, and the shooter is still in the air, then it's a shooting foul, and that is true for Fed and NCAA.
I think Jeff is saying here that under ncaa men it's a PC foul if the shooter makes illegal contact after releasing the ball but while still airborne. If so that's not correct, under ncaa-m a PC foul does not extend to the airborne shooter. Of course under ncaa-m an airborne shooter is considered to be in the act of shooting, as in nfhs & ncaa-w.

My apology if I misread this.
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Old Mon Jan 10, 2005, 02:15pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by JRutledge
Quote:
Originally posted by rainmaker


I'm not 100% sure, but I think the NCAA men's rule is different. I think they don't call this PC if the contact happens after the shot is away.
The only difference is that they consider a PC foul differently if the ball is released or not before contact. The basket is counted if contact happens after the release of the ball. But the same protection is provided for the shooter as it relates to an "Airborne shooter." And you still can be called for a PC Foul after the release of the shot as you do in all levels of amateur basketball (NF and both NCAA sides).

Peace
In NCAA men's there is no PC or team control AFTER the release, so there CANNOT be a PC foul AFTER the release. It is a common foul with FTs if B is in the bonus.

NCAA women's and the NF rules are the same and you can have a PC foul after the release.
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Old Mon Jan 10, 2005, 02:28pm
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I really did not mean PC foul. But the shooter can foul just like the other levels before they come to the floor in NCAA Men's. I just used PC Foul to illustrate that is essentially what it is, except you could shoot FTs if the "defensive team" is in the bonus. It was just a poor choice of words. This is really only distinction that the NCAA makes with the airborne shooter rule. This was just a bad choice of words on my part. Technically that would not be a PC Foul.

Peace
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