Rule Change Proposals

[Larks]

Team control on throw in.

7 on free throw shots is interesting but if WE don't mess around getting the shooter the ball, we can help in this aspect. Takes 3-5 seconds max to sweep and bounce.

Eliminate the ability to sub after 2nd made free throw.

2-man - call foul - stay at table
2-man - no long switch

[REFVA]

Good to hear back from you Chuck!

this is not a rule, but maybe a suggestion to recommend a 3 man for all High school level. To include Fr, JV . The lower levels is where you need the extra pair of eyes..

[MadCityRef]

Originally Posted by Larks

2-man - call foul - stay at table
2-man - no long switches.

Rumor is this will change with the Officals Manual next season to be in line with 3-man mechanics.

I do not like the mechanic in 3-man where Lead calls an offensive foul in front court, goes to report, then returns to inbound the ball. Lead should stay at table and become new center or trail with other official taking the inbounds. The current mechanic delays the game and puts too much attention on the Lead. Get the ball inbounds and go.

[deecee]

madcity it doesnt delay the game -- blow the whistle take a few steps in to make the call -- return to your spot and go. -- it will take a while if you run all the way to about 8-10 feet from the table do your mechanics and then slowly turn around and go back to your spot. but IMO just clear the players -- make eye contact make your call and signal and move on.

[ChuckElias]

Ok, so far, here are the serious suggestions: (I'm leaving out mechanics suggestions for the moment.)

1) Add "slapping the backboard" to the definition of BI.
2) Add an official warning for a coach violating the coaching box rules.
3) Expand definition of team control to include holding the ball OOB for a throw-in.
4) 2 FTs for any common foul beginning with the team's 7th foul of the half.
5) TO shall not be granted to a head coach unless the ball is dead and the clock is stopped.
6) Violation for the inbounder delaying his return to the court.
7) Change penalty for Substitute Technicals to include indirect on head coach.
8) Add "gray shirt" to approved uniform for officials.
9) Eliminate the jump ball (I can't tell if Billy was serious about that one).
10) Eliminate or reduce the 10-second count during FTs.
11) Re-word 9-9-1.
12) Revise the kicking definition to include "contact" instead of "striking".
13) Revise the definition of BI to exclude contact with the net and include pulling on the net, causing the rim to move.
14) Revise sweatband requirements.
15) Prohibit substitutions after the final FT of a multiple throw.
16) Change the blarge procedure to eliminate the double foul penalty.

So far, only #11 #12, #13, and #14 have been written in a way that meets the FED's requirements. Anybody want to write up any of the other ones? Any other suggestions?

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by ChuckElias

Ok, so far, here are the serious suggestions: (I'm leaving out mechanics suggestions for the moment.)

1) Add "slapping the backboard" to the definition of BI.
...
16) Change the blarge procedure to eliminate the double foul penalty.

So far, only #11 #12, #13, and #14 have been written in a way that meets the FED's requirements. Anybody want to write up any of the other ones? Any other suggestions?

You forgot my very serious proposal to not make any changes.

[HawkeyeCubP]

Originally Posted by ChuckElias

This week, I received a form for making rule change suggestions to the FED. Anybody can get the form and make a suggestion, I guess. But I happen to know a member of the rules committee, so he sends me the form directly. If you have a rule that you think should be changed and you would like me to send it on to the committee, here's your chance!

To be submitted, the change has to be submitted exactly as you think it should read in the book. Also, they want us to note exactly what part of the existing rule would have to be deleted, if necessary. Finally (enough hoops to jump through? ), they ask to note other rules and cases affected by the proposed change.

So it's not enough to say, "I'd like to see them go to the POI for a single technical foul". It needs to be written up precisely as it would appear in next year's rulebook.

I got a tremendous response last year when I asked for case book play proposals, so I hope that you have some ideas to pass along.

Signal Chart Change: Change Signal # 31 - "Blocking" from open/cupped hands to fists on hips. (Same rationale as change of signal # 28 prior to 2004-05 season - "fist conveys more strength.")

[HawkeyeCubP]

Originally Posted by ChuckElias

This week, I received a form for making rule change suggestions to the FED. Anybody can get the form and make a suggestion, I guess. But I happen to know a member of the rules committee, so he sends me the form directly. If you have a rule that you think should be changed and you would like me to send it on to the committee, here's your chance!

To be submitted, the change has to be submitted exactly as you think it should read in the book. Also, they want us to note exactly what part of the existing rule would have to be deleted, if necessary. Finally (enough hoops to jump through? ), they ask to note other rules and cases affected by the proposed change.

So it's not enough to say, "I'd like to see them go to the POI for a single technical foul". It needs to be written up precisely as it would appear in next year's rulebook.

I got a tremendous response last year when I asked for case book play proposals, so I hope that you have some ideas to pass along.

220 Currently Reads:

Basic Procedures and Mechanics - Two Officials - Throw-In
220. The administering official shall hand or bounce the ball to the thrower and move to observe the action unless the throw-in is following a successful goal. This in no way lessens the importance of adhering to the nearest spot/designated spot. When adminstering throw-ins on the side line, a bounce is recommended. When adminstering throw-ins on the end line and remaining in the front court, handing the ball to the thrower is recommended. If the throw-in is after a goal, the thrower should be allowed a reasonable time to secure the ball at the end line after which the five-second count is started. The count shall be silent and visible. The administering official shall sound the whistle to indicate play is about to begin only following a charged time-out, an intermission or an unusual delay. If the clock has been stopped, the adminstering official should signal to start the clock when the released ball touches a player who is inbounds.

Proposed Changes:

Basic Procedures and Mechanics - Two Officials - Throw-In
220. The administering official shall hand or bounce the ball to the thrower and move to observe the action unless the throw-in is following a successful goal. This in no way lessens the importance of adhering to the nearest spot/designated spot. When adminstering throw-ins on the side line, a bounce is recommended. When adminstering throw-ins on the end line and remaining in the front court, handing the ball to the thrower is recommended. If the throw-in is after a goal, the thrower should be allowed a reasonable time to secure the ball at the end line after which the five-second count is started. The count shall be silent and visible. The administering official shall sound the whistle to indicate play is about to begin only following a charged time-out, an intermission, an unusual delay, or when the throwing team is on the end line of their frontcourt after the clock has been stopped. If the clock has been stopped, the adminstering official, and the Trail, if Lead is the administering official, should signal to start the clock when the released ball touches a player who is inbounds.


333 Currently Reads:

Basic Procedures and Mechanics - Three Officials - Throw-In
333. The administering official shall hand or bounce the ball to the thrower and move to observe the action unless the throw-in is following a successful goal. This in no way lessens the importance of adhering to the nearest spot/designated spot. When administering throw-ins on the side line, a bounce is recommended. When administering throw-ins on the end line and remaining in the front court, handing the ball to the thrower is recommended. If the throw-in is after a goal, the thrower should be allowed a reasonable time to secure the ball at the end line after which the five-second count is started. The count shall be silent and visible. The administering official shall sound the whistle to indicate play is about to begin only following a charged time-out, an intermission or an unusual delay. If the clock has been stopped, the adminstering official should signal to start the clock when the released ball touches a player who is inbounds.

Proposed Changes:

Basic Procedures and Mechanics - Three Officials - Throw-In
333. The administering official shall hand or bounce the ball to the thrower and move to observe the action unless the throw-in is following a successful goal. This in no way lessens the importance of adhering to the nearest spot/designated spot. When administering throw-ins on the side line, a bounce is recommended. When administering thro-ins on the end line and remaining in the front court, handing the ball to the thrower is recommended. If the throw-in is after a goal, the thrower should be allowed a reasonable time to secure the ball at the end line after which the five-second count is started. The count shall be silent and visible. The administering official shall sound the whistle to indicate play is about to begin only following a charged time-out, an intermission, an unusual delay, or when the throwing team is on the end line of their frontcourt after the clock has been stopped. If the clock has been stopped, the adminstering official, and the Trail, if Lead is the administering official, should signal to start the clock when the released ball touches a player who is inbounds.


Affected Rules: None.

Affected Case Plays: None.


(Can you tell I've been home sick for two days?)

[Stat-Man]

Since NFHS is big on administrative rule changes, I have one:

2-11-1-Note: It is recommended required the team member numbers be submitted and entered into the official scorebook in numerical order.

To address a pet peeve of mine.

[BillyMac]

Stat-Man:

Good idea for a change. It would certainly help the referee when he or she checks the book for identical or illegal numbers. It would also make it easier for the scorekeeper who doesn't know the player's names to find the number quickly to record points and fouls. Would there a need to for a provision for a late, but still before the ten minute mark, change; torn or bloodied uniforms needing changing, varsity player getting sick or injured and being replaced on the roster by a junior varsity player, etc? Some coaches make up the roster hours before game time.

[ChuckElias]

Just thought I'd give you a progress report. I had the opportunity to work with a member of the FED rules committee last weekend. We worked a college game together. I gave him the list that we'd compiled and he commented on a few of the proposals.

3) Expand definition of team control to include holding the ball OOB for a throw-in.

As we know, the FED doesn't like to make big exceptions or changes to long-standing rules. And that's what this one would require. He doesn't see much chance for this one.

5) TO shall not be granted to a head coach unless the ball is dead and the clock is stopped.

This would be like "putting the genie back in the bottle", according to him. Just not going to happen, until all the members of the committee are officials. The coaches like it too much. It's never going away.

6) Violation for the inbounder delaying his return to the court.

The rules committee actually wanted this as part of the rule change a couple years ago. But the FED itself didn't like it. Since it's a T for a player to delay his return during a normal play or after a TO, they thought it should also remain a T if he delays his return following a throw-in. They didn't like the idea of two different penalties for exactly the same infraction, just b/c they happen at different times. So I don't think this one will fly.

8) Add "gray shirt" to approved uniform for officials.

No support for it at all on the committee. In the past, they proposed it as a State Adoption, but the FED itself said that there are already enough State Adoptions and didn't want any more. This is also why you will never see the shot clock as a State Adoption. Either everyone is going to use it, or no one is.

14) Revise sweatband requirements.

Not going to happen.

15) Prohibit substitutions after the final FT of a multiple throw.

Another one that has been discussed, but the coaches like it too much. It's a tactic that the coaches will not give up.

16) Change the blarge procedure to eliminate the double foul penalty.

He was unaware of the women's NCAA procedure. When I explained it, he asked, "What if they can't agree whose call it was?" So I'm not sure if that one will fly either, although I personally hope it does.

The others, he didn't really comment on. Just thought I'd pass it along to everybody.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by ChuckElias

Just thought I'd give you a progress report.

Did you ask him about that stoopid ruling from Mary Struckhoff? The one about no backcourt violation if a pass from the backcourt hits an official in the frontcourt and then goes into the backcourt again?

[BayStateRef]

Originally Posted by ChuckElias

8) Add "gray shirt" to approved uniform for officials.
No support for it at all on the committee. In the past, they proposed it as a State Adoption, but the FED itself said that there are already enough State Adoptions and didn't want any more. This is also why you will never see the shot clock as a State Adoption. Either everyone is going to use it, or no one is.

So what? States do not need the Fed's blessing to adopt a rule. States routinely adopt rules (such as using the shot clock) without permission from the Fed. And nothing happens to those states. It is helpful to have a uniform set of national rules, but it seems that individual states can do what they please without needing any formal approval from the Fed.

[Old School]

Originally Posted by ChuckElias

Just thought I'd give you a progress report. I had the opportunity to work with a member of the FED rules committee last weekend. We worked a college game together. I gave him the list that we'd compiled and he commented on a few of the proposals.

3) Expand definition of team control to include holding the ball OOB for a throw-in.

As we know, the FED doesn't like to make big exceptions or changes to long-standing rules. And that's what this one would require. He doesn't see much chance for this one.
Chuck, we absolutely need to get this one changed. To me, this is not a big change, but a very small one. Once I give the ball to the inbounder, the team has control or should have control. I think this is a very easy one to change and the coaches would support it.

5) TO shall not be granted to a head coach unless the ball is dead and the clock is stopped.

This would be like "putting the genie back in the bottle", according to him. Just not going to happen, until all the members of the committee are officials. The coaches like it too much. It's never going away.
What a shame, this would make it easier for us to administrator. This is also a problem waiting to happen. I notice this year they have given the NBA coaches the ability to call TO's, in particular instances of course. Probably had something to do with the Dallas Miami playoff situation last year.

15) Prohibit substitutions after the final FT of a multiple throw.

Another one that has been discussed, but the coaches like it too much. It's a tactic that the coaches will not give up. It's a great tactic, I don't think it should change either.

16) Change the blarge procedure to eliminate the double foul penalty.

He was unaware of the women's NCAA procedure. When I explained it, he asked, "What if they can't agree whose call it was?" So I'm not sure if that one will fly either, although I personally hope it does. I'm not sure I agree with the women's procedure. How do you determine which one occurred first, unfairly penalizing one of the teams? I personally wouldn't want something like this coming down to a referee's decision which could decide the game.

I thought there where some that where more important then these. I support #3, let's hope for that one.

[blindzebra]

Originally Posted by ChuckElias

Just thought I'd give you a progress report. I had the opportunity to work with a member of the FED rules committee last weekend. We worked a college game together. I gave him the list that we'd compiled and he commented on a few of the proposals.

3) Expand definition of team control to include holding the ball OOB for a throw-in.

As we know, the FED doesn't like to make big exceptions or changes to long-standing rules. And that's what this one would require. He doesn't see much chance for this one.

5) TO shall not be granted to a head coach unless the ball is dead and the clock is stopped.

This would be like "putting the genie back in the bottle", according to him. Just not going to happen, until all the members of the committee are officials. The coaches like it too much. It's never going away.

6) Violation for the inbounder delaying his return to the court.

The rules committee actually wanted this as part of the rule change a couple years ago. But the FED itself didn't like it. Since it's a T for a player to delay his return during a normal play or after a TO, they thought it should also remain a T if he delays his return following a throw-in. They didn't like the idea of two different penalties for exactly the same infraction, just b/c they happen at different times. So I don't think this one will fly.

8) Add "gray shirt" to approved uniform for officials.

No support for it at all on the committee. In the past, they proposed it as a State Adoption, but the FED itself said that there are already enough State Adoptions and didn't want any more. This is also why you will never see the shot clock as a State Adoption. Either everyone is going to use it, or no one is.

14) Revise sweatband requirements.

Not going to happen.

15) Prohibit substitutions after the final FT of a multiple throw.

Another one that has been discussed, but the coaches like it too much. It's a tactic that the coaches will not give up.

16) Change the blarge procedure to eliminate the double foul penalty.

He was unaware of the women's NCAA procedure. When I explained it, he asked, "What if they can't agree whose call it was?" So I'm not sure if that one will fly either, although I personally hope it does.

The others, he didn't really comment on. Just thought I'd pass it along to everybody.

I really don't see adding the word inbounds to 3 seconds, closely guarded and 10 seconds backcourt is that major of a change for team control during a throw-in to take place.