traveling or pushing??

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by 81artmonk

Having marinated on this debate I have come to see that we just don't see eye to eye.

And now you're stewing about it. How appropriate.

[Back In The Saddle]

So let's just recap briefly. The ref's you've shown the rulebook to didn't respond favorably. The refs here didn't respond favorably when you described this tactic either. I'd have to say that this just isn't working for you, Coach. Perhaps it's time to try a new approach.

I was sincere when I extended my welcome to you to the forum. I still feel the same way. You obviously came here looking for informed answers. Whether or not you expected to get such a different point of view, I hope you'll find it valuable.

[Adam]

I'm going to add my two bits here.
The ref you talked about in the original post was right. It's a judgment call. You're wrong in saying it's not open to interpretation. Look at rule 4-27; it clearly states that foul calls are jugdment calls. If a player pushes another one, and that other player later travels, it doesn't mean the relationship between the two events is causal. That's for the ref the determine.

If the ref thinks the push did not cause the travel (maybe he thought she was off balance before or maybe he thought she gathered herself first), then he's going to call the travel. If the ref thinks the push caused the travel, he'll call the push.

The fact is, it's a judgment call for which the responsibility is on two people in the gym.
Furthermore, most middle school refs are struggling with how to apply these things. He may have initially thought the contact was incidental and didn't want to come in with the late foul. I've called the late foul on this play; but it takes some experience to do that.

[81artmonk]

Jurassic Referee.......You are just rude and cranky!!! That statement simply says that I had thought about what was said and that having taken it in, I don't agree with some of it. To make the assumption that I am mad and stewing about it is a stretch and putting words in my mouth and I don't appreciate it. My last post I thought was extremely gracious and extending an olive branch to you guys for arguing, and your last post to me was not. For your information I am not stewing, I am not mad, but having read your post I now am. Thanks. To you other REFS who responded after my last post, I greatly thank you for your graciousness and openness and kindness for sharing with me. It gives me hope that we can all debate without being rude and condecending.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by 81artmonk

Jurassic Referee.......You are just rude and cranky!!!

It gives me hope that we can all debate without being rude and condecending.

You spelled "condescending" wrong.

Other than that, for the first time, I pretty much gotta agree with you. Resume marinating.

[BillyMac]

I worked a boys varsity game Friday night with the highest ranked partner that I've worked with in a long time. In our post-game conference he said that he wanted one call back. A-1 was dribbling in the backcourt near the sideline when he got slightly bumped by B-1. According to my partner, A-1 was able to dribble "through" the slight bump, so my partner passed on the foul. The next thing to happen, was A-1 stepping on the sideline, with my partner awarding the ball to Team B for a throw-in. Unfortunately, this happened right in front of the Team A bench and Team A coach, who gave my partner an earful. My partner, in our post-game conference, said that he had wished that he had called the foul.

If officiating was easy, they wouldn't need to pay each of us $80.00 a game to get qualified officials. If officiating was easy, we wouldn't need to constantly go to clinics. If officiating was easy, there would be no need for a forum, such as this one. It's hard to do. If you've never done it, you don't know what it's like to be in our shoes.