OOB vs. Held Ball

[j51969]

First I would see if my partner had any help. If not OOB an A

[Adam]

My conversation with the coach is likely to include, "Coach, I wasn't exactly thrilled with my angle on that; but I have to call what I see."

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by j51969

First I would see if my partner had any help. If not OOB an A

2-man crew, fast break...my partner was nowhere near this play.

BTW, I called OOB b/c like I said, the first time I saw the ball was when A1 was standing with her foot on the baseline. I definitely didn't see if their was a hold when B1 initially reached in and I do not know if the ball did or didn't come loose while I was straight-lined. I called the only thing that I actually saw, which was A1 and B1 in simultaneous possession of the ball and A1's foot on the baseline.

A1 must have thought I had it out for her by the end of the game b/c later on I did get her for a picture perfect player control foul in which the defender established LGP and then slid perfectly into position to absorb the charge. Then later A1 tied up a player who had just gotten a defensive rebound but A1 did so with her toe on the baseline. Team A's fans sure were letting me have it by then. (especially since somewhere along this timeline I had to T up Team A's coach).

[CaliOne]

maybe move your body or your lean your head & shoulders slightly to quickly to get a look between players? I'm not saying I could have done any better, but I agree with DAnRef in that you know it had to be either a held ball or a foul, because B1 reached in and both players spun around.

[Camron Rust]

Even if you don't "see" everything, you can often deduce a lot from what you can see.

To call OOB, A loses the ball no matter what....perhaps unfairly. In calling the held ball, A may lose the ball or may not but they will at least end up with the arrow if they do lose the ball. I'm not suggesting you just call the held ball every time you can't see something, just stating what the ramifications are.

In this case, I think you've probably got a foul or a held ball based on the fact that A1's body was spun around in a way that, as described, could only be caused by B1 grabbing something. I don't think you can come up with a foul based on what was described. A1's hands were both on the ball when A1 came down. If B1's hands were on the ball when A1 came down, you've definitely got justification for a held ball. Even if B1's hands were not on the ball, the actions you did observe still suggest a held ball.


Furthermore, You can sometimes deduce a foul by B even if you can't see the contact by the physical response of A (not always, but sometimes). If B had been holding onto A's arm, you can tell by how the ball pops out and how A's arms move. For example, A1 bringing the ball up with both hands, B get's their arm in there but you can't see cleanly. A1's arms both continue up without the ball...could be clean, could be a foul. You don't have enough info to call anything. But, if A1 has one arm continue up but one arm stays down and the ball pops out awkwardly, I'm calling a foul....that only happens if B1 is hanging on the arm of A1. I don't have to see B1 hanging on A1's arm to know that it happened.

It doesn't sound like this is your case. It sounds like A1 continued to hold onto the ball with both arms. Not enough info to justify a foul.

[BktBallRef]

I don't see how you can GUESS a foul or a held ball.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

I don't see how you can GUESS a foul or a held ball.

Are you referring to me? Note, I'm don't think it is guessing. I'm using information that I did see to deduce what has occurred. It is not necessary to see absolutely 100% of an event to know what happened.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

It is not necessary to see absolutely 100% of an event to know what happened.

Like a slap? You know whether it's a foul or not just by hearing it?

I'm with the "gotta see it" bunch. If the films show that I missed something, I'll hang my head in abject shame....and then forget about it.