Interesting Timing Error

[Eastshire]

We were given this real-life case play at the area supervisor meeting last night.

1.2 seconds remain in the 4th quarter and the score is tied.

A1 is about to attempt the 2nd of 2 free throws.

The timer starts the clock on the release of the free through and the horn sounds

A) after B1 secures the rebound
B) after A2 secures the rebound
C) after A3 muffs the rebound out of bounds
D) before the ball is touched.

What are your rulings?

[blindzebra]

A. team B's ball 1.2 seconds back on the clock.

B. team A's ball 1.2 on the clock.

C. team B's ball 1.2 on the clock.

D. go to arrow, 1.2 on the clock.

[Nevadaref]

So the FT is missed in all cases, then here are my opinions:
A. POI throw-in for Team B with 1.2 on the clock.
B. POI throw-in for Team A with 1.2 on the clock.

In both A and B, if is clear that the rebound did not take the full 1.2 seconds to secure, thus the clock must have started early in an obvious timing error. Since there is no definite knowledge of how much time to remove, the full 1.2 must be put back.

C. The 4th quarter is over and overtime will be played.

This action could well have taken 1.2 seconds. There is no obvious timing error here.

D. The sounding of the quarter ending horn makes the ball dead as soon as the try is missed, despite the fact that it was sounded in error. Since the ball became dead before either team could obtain a rebound, the only choice is to go to the AP arrow and award that team the POI throw-in with 1.2 seconds on the clock.

[cmathews]

Without a count and definite knowledge I don't see how any time can be put up in A,B or C. In D go with the arrow and 1.2 seconds. In A,B & C since we don't know how much time elapsed, there is no way to put time back up. We can't go with 1.2 since the clock should have started on the touch of the rebound, and unless you are counting, there is not definite knowledge.

[blindzebra]

Originally Posted by cmathews

Without a count and definite knowledge I don't see how any time can be put up in A,B or C. In D go with the arrow and 1.2 seconds. In A,B & C since we don't know how much time elapsed, there is no way to put time back up. We can't go with 1.2 since the clock should have started on the touch of the rebound, and unless you are counting, there is not definite knowledge.

You know darn well you have a timing error and the last time you have definite knowledge of is 1.2.

[cmathews]

Originally Posted by blindzebra

You know darn well you have a timing error and the last time you have definite knowledge of is 1.2.

I didn't say there wasn't a timing error. I said you don't have definite knowledge of how much time elapsed between when the ball was touched and when the horn sounded...Without that knowledge you can't put time back on the clock in A, B or C. In D you do know that no time should have run off therefore the 1.2 is definite knowledge, unless you are counting in A, B or C you are just guessing about the time, and we can't guess.....

[deecee]

but you should know roughly how much time is left -- on a miss the clock doesnt start till it is touched -- since possession is gained -- assumed without bobble or what not -- that the ball becomes dead right away and we go POI with 1.2 on the clock as we have possession

[HawkeyeCubP]

Originally Posted by cmathews

I didn't say there wasn't a timing error. I said you don't have definite knowledge of how much time elapsed between when the ball was touched and when the horn sounded...Without that knowledge you can't put time back on the clock in A, B or C. In D you do know that no time should have run off therefore the 1.2 is definite knowledge, unless you are counting in A, B or C you are just guessing about the time, and we can't guess.....

I'm replacing "after" with "at" (essentially, "at A1's touch of the rebound," etc.), and going with Nevada's responses.

[blindzebra]

Originally Posted by cmathews

I didn't say there wasn't a timing error. I said you don't have definite knowledge of how much time elapsed between when the ball was touched and when the horn sounded...Without that knowledge you can't put time back on the clock in A, B or C. In D you do know that no time should have run off therefore the 1.2 is definite knowledge, unless you are counting in A, B or C you are just guessing about the time, and we can't guess.....

So what if we replace 1.2 with 5 seconds and they started it just before the release? You not going to put up time when you know darn well 5 seconds didn't run off? I don't think so.

We have definite knowledge of the time before, we know there was a timing error, so we can go back to the time we know was last right, 1.2.