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  #31 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 17, 2007, 09:47pm
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You KNOW what the clock read on the FT attempt and just prior to the rebound being touched.
You KNOW what the clock shows now.

There is definite knowledge of those two times.

However, for anything in between there is no definite knowledge. To pick one of those times and put that back up is simply fabrication.

Think about it, get someone to explain it to you, if necessary.
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 17, 2007, 10:21pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref
You KNOW what the clock read on the FT attempt and just prior to the rebound being touched.
You KNOW what the clock shows now.

There is definite knowledge of those two times.

However, for anything in between there is no definite knowledge. To pick one of those times and put that back up is simply fabrication.

Think about it, get someone to explain it to you, if necessary.
You also know that that some time should have run off the clock since the ball was rebounded before the horn. So, you know that putting the time that was on the clock at the time of the FT is also not the correct time. Putting that time on the clock is a fabrication too since it is not the correct time. Knowing what was on the clock at some time prior to an error is not the same as knowing what time should be on the clock.

Heck, I know that the quarter started with 8:00 on the clock. Since I know that for sure, can I just put 8:00 on the clock anytime there is a timing error where I don't know how much correction needs to be made?

Definite knowledge is not about what used to be on the clock but how much should now be on the clock. This can sometimes be derived by combining how much used to be on the clock with any counts that the officials has but it is not sufficient alone to just put it back to some prior time that was known to be on the clock.

Your choices are to either leave it at 0 or to put it as some time between 0 and the starting time if you can determine how much time should have elapsed. There are no other choices.
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Last edited by Camron Rust; Wed Jan 17, 2007 at 10:24pm.
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 17, 2007, 10:41pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref
There is definite knowledge of those two times.
Sooo...I went to my fed rule book and turned to rule 4, where I hoped to find the definition of definite knowledge...but it's not there (shock and dismay). By what authority is your definition of definite knowledge better than anyone else's?
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One thing is clear. You are easily trained.
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 17, 2007, 10:46pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan_ref
One thing is clear. You are easily trained.
She says that's my best quality.
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 17, 2007, 10:53pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref
She says that's my best quality.
I'm sure everyone says it's your best quality.
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 17, 2007, 10:57pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust
You also know that that some time should have run off the clock since the ball was rebounded before the horn. So, you know that putting the time that was on the clock at the time of the FT is also not the correct time. Putting that time on the clock is a fabrication too since it is not the correct time. Knowing what was on the clock at some time prior to an error is not the same as knowing what time should be on the clock.
...
Your choices are to either leave it at 0 or to put it as some time between 0 and the starting time if you can determine how much time should have elapsed. There are no other choices.
Camron,
Your logic is fine. Unfortunately, the game of basketball is not based upon logic. It is based up the written rules. Those rules are not always logical and the timing rules are imprecise.
The timer is supposed to start the clock, when the official chops in time (or is authorized to do so according to the proper rules when the official fails to do this). The official is supposed to chop in time, when the ball is touched by a player on the court. This process is not instantaneous. The clock starts a bit late or stops a bit late frequently during the game. If all of that is summed up, it probably amounts to a good chunk of time.

Anyway, my point is that if a player catches a rebound and the horn sounds at approximately the same time due to it having started prematurely, then the correct time to put on the clock very well could be what was on it when the FT was administered. You cannot be sure that any time should have run off because the official chop and timer's response may not have been that quick.
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 18, 2007, 12:25am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref
The clock starts a bit late or stops a bit late frequently during the game. If all of that is summed up, it probably amounts to a good chunk of time.

Anyway, my point is that if a player catches a rebound and the horn sounds at approximately the same time due to it having started prematurely, then the correct time to put on the clock very well could be what was on it when the FT was administered.

Or you could put all possible times on ping-pong balls and draw one out of a garbage bag.

You've already mentioned 2-3, which certainly is a possibility here, which means you can put any amount of time you want on the clock, but you're kinda reaching when your interpretation of a rule includes the phrase "could very well be." jmo
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