This never happen to me before--What would you do?

[IowaMike]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

You have the right game.

Now are you saying you would call a jump ball because it truly was a jump ball or because you feel that was the best thing to do considering the circumstances?

Peace

It looked to me like it could have truly been a jump. If it didn't meet the criteria for a jump ball, why not go with point of interruption and give it back to the team that was in possession at the time of the whistle?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by IowaMike

It looked to me like it could have truly been a jump. If it didn't meet the criteria for a jump ball, why not go with point of interruption and give it back to the team that was in possession at the time of the whistle?

Believe me that was the first thought in my head. As I started running to my partner, I thought about what I just saw and thought of all the scenarios to not call a travel. As a matter of fact, an IW was what I first proposed. The jump ball was the last thing I thought, but I thought it applied to the play. I then suggested the jump ball after I realized the team in possession had the arrow. But that was an option before. I just did not suggest it until I looked at the table. Is that the right thought process? I really do not know I just know we could not go with a travel on this call. I did feel very strong about that.

Peace

[zebraman]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Believe me that was the first thought in my head. As I started running to my partner, I thought about what I just saw and thought of all the scenarios to not call a travel. As a matter of fact, an IW was what I first proposed. The jump ball was the last thing I thought, but I thought it applied to the play. I then suggested the jump ball after I realized the team in possession had the arrow. But that was an option before. I just did not suggest it until I looked at the table. Is that the right thought process? I really do not know I just know we could not go with a travel on this call. I did feel very strong about that.

Peace

Rut,

I'm not trying to badger you, but I'm really curious about where you draw the line on going to your partner when you feel like they missed a call? Traveling calls? Fouls?

If I went to a partner that I trusted in a situation like this, I think the first thing they would say is, "what the hell are you doing?"

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by zebraman

Rut,

I'm not trying to badger you, but I'm really curious about where you draw the line on going to your partner when you feel like they missed a call? Traveling calls? Fouls?

I don't think it has anything to do with the *type* of call, but rather with the situation. When you see something that your partner missed (defenders hand on the ball, the ball coming loose), then you consider offering help. If your partner saw the whole thing but his / her judgment was different, then you let it go.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by zebraman

Rut,

I'm not trying to badger you, but I'm really curious about where you draw the line on going to your partner when you feel like they missed a call? Traveling calls? Fouls?

If I went to a partner that I trusted in a situation like this, I think the first thing they would say is, "what the hell are you doing?"

I posted this here with the full understanding that people would disagree or agree with what I did. I also posted this because I was conflicted about a situation that I have never been involved in.

Secondly I am sure there would be officials that would be upset if I or any official came to them. There are a lot of officials that are stubborn no matter what information you give them. I have been told even in playoff games to basically “go away” only to later have the calling official realize they should have taken the advice.

I am also not in this camp I need to save my partner from all calls or even most calls. I rarely give my partner's information other than when it is widely accepted. Even if I am not sure about an out of bounds call, I do not come in and say a word when there is any doubt. This situation there was no doubt. I also would never correct a call if there was mostly judgment involved. If my partner called a traveling because of the pivot foot moved or did not move, I would not ever come in and give any information about something like that. So for me there is a clear line. Also my partner in my opinion (and what he said afterwards) was clearly screened to the defender and his arm and did not see why the player came back to the floor with the ball. If he had a better look or I had my look, even if I think it was the wrong call because of what I thought I saw, I would have let it go. So for me all the elements fit entirely for me to even entertain giving information. I was 100% sure I saw the play better, my partner was completely screened and everyone with a similar look could tell the defender put his hands all over the ball and at the very least blocked the shot which was clearly seen on tape if you talk to IowaMike.

The following day I had a game and I was the new Lead and administering a throw-in. I still had the ball in my hand and was standing next to the thrower and one of the offensive team members on the floor throws an elbow to the mid-section of the defender and my partner who is the Center Official calls a foul. Now I knew if he was going to call a foul it had to be a technical because it was very clear that I was still holding the ball. So I ran to my partner and told him we have to give a T because the ball was still dead. He accepted the information and called a T for the contact.

In both situations I just gave information when I was 100% sure what took place. Now if I had to do it all over again, I would have blown my whistle for what I clearly saw and I would have never come here and asked about it, because it is not uncommon to have a double whistle and not have the same call but go with what happen first or what was right to call. The part I am most upset by is that I did not have a whistle. I know we sometimes like to say “always” and “never” but this situation for me shows why you have to be careful when using those terms. This was likely a once in a career situation for me. I would have rather not had this situation at all.

Peace

[zebraman]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I posted this here with the full understanding that people would disagree or agree with what I did. I also posted this because I was conflicted about a situation that I have never been involved in.

I am also not in this camp I need to save my partner from all calls or even most calls. I rarely give my partner's information other than when it is widely accepted. Even if I am not sure about an out of bounds call, I do not come in and say a word when there is any doubt. This situation there was no doubt. I also would never correct a call if there was mostly judgment involved.
Peace

Thanks Rut,
That answers my question.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by zebraman

Thanks Rut,
That answers my question.

You are welcome.

Peace

[tomegun]

I think a lot of people are trying to pile on. Not only do I not agree, because Rut is admittedly conflicted, but I think it is a case of the pot calling the kettle black. If everyone that disagrees with what Rut did do NOT follow the "get the call right" mantra then OK. But, I would bet some that have piled on will say "get the call right" as an excuse to watch the ball all over the court.

Isn't it obvious that Rut is even questioning if this crossed the line? I don't recall him ever saying this is what he did, he knows it was right and that is all there is to it. IMO, he posted because he wasn't 100% sure about the call.

I will be ready and waiting to pounce on some posters if/when they do something that is questionable. But then again, we know some wouldn't even post anything they did wrong in the first place.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by tomegun

I think a lot of people are trying to pile on. Not only do I not agree, because Rut is admittedly conflicted, but I think it is a case of the pot calling the kettle black. If everyone that disagrees with what Rut did do NOT follow the "get the call right" mantra then OK. But, I would bet some that have piled on will say "get the call right" as an excuse to watch the ball all over the court.

Isn't it obvious that Rut is even questioning if this crossed the line? I don't recall him ever saying this is what he did, he knows it was right and that is all there is to it. IMO, he posted because he wasn't 100% sure about the call.

I will be ready and waiting to pounce on some posters if/when they do something that is questionable. But then again, we know some wouldn't even post anything they did wrong in the first place.

The one thing nobody's picked up on is Rut's posting history -- Rut is clearly not someone who looks all over the court and runs around trying to overturn calls.

If I'm working with a regular partner whose history I know (and he's like Rut) and he come running in, well, then I'm going to listen.

Too many black-and-white answers in this thread. Officiating is much more gray in nature.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser

Too many black-and-white answers in this thread. Officiating is much more gray in nature.

Which is exactly why I didn't post. Without being there and having some kind of feel for the game, situation, and/or my partners, I really don't know what I'd do.

[tomegun]

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser

The one thing nobody's picked up on is Rut's posting history -- Rut is clearly not someone who looks all over the court and runs around trying to overturn calls.

If I'm working with a regular partner whose history I know (and he's like Rut) and he come running in, well, then I'm going to listen.

Too many black-and-white answers in this thread. Officiating is much more gray in nature.

I agree with this and JR's post.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by tomegun

I agree with this and JR's post.

I'm not trying to hijack the thread (although it seems to be winding down), but I had an IW last night, which was the first I can remember in 20 years, although I wouldn't swear I've never had one. Ball was originally on the cylinder and then a hand came sideways through the net and hit the ball. Problem was, the ball fell off the cylinder before this happened and the hand clearly did not go up through the basket. When the ball was hit, it was below the rim.

I was too quick on the whistle -- it was 2-person and we were in transition. I didn't hesitate -- I stepped in and told my partner we had an IW with no team control --> AP.

Then I told the benches and the table. Shooting team coach wanted BI and then said after my explanation, "well, why not a foul on the play?" Other team said they had possession of the ball -- they did get the rebound, but not until after the whistle. Both arguments were pretty half-hearted and we got the game started quickly.

Four player technicals last night. Double technical on a held ball -- we closed quickly as the play on a loose ball was aggressive, but the players involved started mouthing at each other. Partner got a technical on the one player, but I saw both yapping and called the double T. I figured this would send a message.

Home team stopped yapping, but the visiting team didn't. We had two more technicals on visiting players trying to drive through 2-3 players hoping to get bailed out. When they didn't get bailed out, they turned to the official, gestured, and shouted at the official -- and got technicals for their troubles. One was on one of the participants in the held ball double technical, so he'll get to sit a game.

Things are starting to go up a notch in intensity with a month left in the season.