Missed FT Violation - FYI

[BEAREF]

Originally Posted by drinkeii

Sorry - that happens when you are typing on your phone and miss a key or get an extra one. The substance of the message I wrote is a bit more important than the misspelling of one word.

I suggest using your keyboard to type instead of your phone.

[mick]

Originally Posted by Ref Daddy

Had a close G V last night and a strange thing caught our eye. 30 years experience on the crew we all missed this one. Sharing.

As ball presented to a free-throw shooter, she would set her "toe "outside the line and slowly drag it back behind the line, set up and shoot without violation - all with the ball in her hand. Happened twice and did not effect outcome of the game.

This is a violation per Rule 9 ART. 7 . . . The free thrower shall not have either foot beyond the vertical plane of the edge of the free-throw line which is farther from the basket or the free-throw semicircle line.

We missed that this applies to preshot routines too.

When shooter gets the ball they should already be inside the semi-circle and stay there.

I could not ignore it above elementary levels.
I would find it "bothersome" and ask the player to stop doing that.

[drinkeii]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Agreed, but we must also call by the intent of the rule. Since the intent isn't always known, it becomes a tough line to walk.

In the OP, I think the intent is to prevent (a) the running / jumping layup / dunk and (b) the easy rebound by the shooter. Since neither of those things is happening during the pre-shot ritual described, I would be unlikely to call it.

But I have always said that you have to be careful to not read into the "intent" of the rulemakers, since we have seen major problems with our constitution when we have battles between literal interpretations and trying to figure the intent of those rules.

My opinion - if the rule says this... do this. End of story. Otherwise, why have rules? If it wasn't something that needed to be addressed, it would not have been put in there. The rulemakers are not perfect - look at the Technical foul for going out of bounds changing back to a violation, because everyone felt it was too strict. However, some of these rules have been around forever, and some have been points of emphasis because too many people choose NOT to administer them, leading to a degradation of the game.

No, a preshot ritual which involves putting a foot outside the line before shooting probably doesn't gain an advantage. But I guarantee the first time you call it, it will make the player adjust their play to within the rules, or at least begin to do so, and isn't that our job? Keep the players safe, and administer the rules.

(and yes, I spell-checked!)

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by mick

I would find it "bothersome" and ask the player to stop doing that.

You are wise beyond your years.

You deserve better than the Lions.

[theboys]

The high school my son played for had a JV girl who would make a little practice shot immediately above her - to practice her form, I guess - before attempting the actual free throw. She got away with it for a couple of games. I was surprised it wasn't called earlier. Although she wasn't trying to trick anyone, it was definitely, for lack of a better term, "disconcerting".

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by drinkeii

My opinion - if the rule says this... do this. End of story.

From the rules book: "Therefore, it is important to know the intent and purpose of a rule so that it may be intelligently applied in each play situation."

It's a conundrum. Sometimes I say "apply what's written", sometimes I say "apply the intent." In this example, I choose the latter. :shrug:

[Zoochy]

Originally Posted by theboys

The high school my son played for had a JV girl who would make a little practice shot immediately above her - to practice her form, I guess - before attempting the actual free throw. She got away with it for a couple of games. I was surprised it wasn't called earlier. Although she wasn't trying to trick anyone, it was definitely, for lack of a better term, "disconcerting".

I don't understand.... How was that a violation????

[CoachP]

Zooch- I guess that would depend on if she had the ball for the "practice"

[mick]

Originally Posted by CoachP

Zooch- I guess that would depend on if she had the ball for the "practice"

I dunno.
Is a trial "shot" that different from tossing the ball a foot or two with a backward spin before grabbing and shooting ? ...Or, for that matter, from merely bouncing the ball once or twice ?

...Hangin' with Zooch.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Zoochy

I don't understand.... How was that a violation????

Dunno...if she does it the same every time, it's legal imo.

[CoachP]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Dunno...if she does it the same every time, it's legal imo.

???
So A1 steps up to the line, you flip her the ball, she takes a couple practice "Shots" straight up in the air, and we let that go?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by CoachP

???
So A1 steps up to the line, you flip her the ball, she takes a couple practice "Shots" straight up in the air, and we let that go?

As long as it's not a "fake," yes.

[drinkeii]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

As long as it's not a "fake," yes.

I would agree with this also - it's not a violation by rule, or common sense (if no trickery was involved - then it is a violation for both reasons - but that isn't what the OP said).

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by CoachP

???
So A1 steps up to the line, you flip her the ball, she takes a couple practice "Shots" straight up in the air, and we let that go?

If it's part of her normal routine and she's not getting any kind of advantage out of it, why wouldn't we?

There's no rule against it.

[KCRef]

What if one of the 6 players lined up for the free-throw does the same thing as the shooter in the OP? Steps on the line and slides their foot back behind the line to get just as close as they can? Does not affect the play. Would this be a lane violation?