1st varsity Tech awarded

[deecee]

Saturday evening GV

During late in the second quarter the home HC was really getting on OUR (2man crew) nerves. Lucky for us he had to walk us to our classroom during half . I told him during that walk that if he kept up the way he was he was going to a T in the 3rd. He asked me about a no-call earlier and I told him that if this is how he had been approaching me earlier we would be fine. I said ask away and I will answer as many questions as I possibly can -- but make statements and I won't even acknowledge them (for the most part). He appologized and I felt that it would be the end of that. I was right. but maybe I should have had this talk with the visiting coach too -- he had been perfect all first half.

Halfway through the third quarter his girl goes for a layup and misses -- she jumps backwar (not a lot) to get the rebound and defense jumps forward(about the same distance) and they both make some contact and offense gets the rebound (coach is yelling for this foul to be called but it was incendental and his player had another pretty much unontested attempts at a layup), pivots away from the defense and attempts another layup and misses . Now defense gets the rebound and same offensive player just reaches in out of frustration and commits a foul. I am lead in front of visiting bench (the visiting player was called for the foul).

Coach is irate and starts Yelling "TIME OUT!!!!" (x) 3 or 4. I KNEW this TO was for a jaw session with me and I HAD to walk right by him as I was about 6-8 feet away when he called the TO. He starts going off about the contact and I calmly told him "coach let me report the foul and TO and if you have any questions I would answer them but I would prefer if you addressed your team FIRST during your TO." He didnt apparently want to address his team -- So while I am reporting foul and TO -- he is waiting outside the huddle for me. When I was done he said he used that TO to address my nocall. OK fine I will try and work with him here.

coach: how was there no foul on that rebound my girl was hammered./?
me: Jim (name has been changed) are you asking me a question or making a statement. I can answer your question if you want.
coach: that was a foul and then you call that touch foul after.
me: Jim I am trying to work with you here but you are making it difficult. (now I start to move away slowly).
coach: I want you to officiate the game.
me: Jim this conversation is over I would suggest you drop it from here on in. (I could have T'd him here -- but this conversation was really only audible to me, him and his team and I can handle this).

Now I go to the other side of the gym as per full timout requirements and wait by the block. TO over and I hear "THAT's Horrible" -- I look over and Jim is staring at me he says again "That's horrible" and I give him the stop/cut it off hand signal. My partner is about the put the ball in play right by Jim's bench and he says again "That's really horrible" still looking at me and by then I had NO choice. T --

Jim: Yes you are just giving them the game Thank you.
I report the T
me: Jim you just gave them that I just called it. Partner calm him down and seat belt him.

He was fine from there on in and didn't say anything. Now I know I had 2 opportunities earlier to T him up -- but I personally passed on the first because I was in his den and he didn't really cross the line too bad IMO -- the conversation of sorts was between him and I and I am fine with that. The second time could have been after his first or second remark of "that's horrible" as hes had plenty of time to cool off. Now the whole time I was calm and even tried to calm him down -- I think if I had not addressed him during the TO he would have earned that T much sooner even though when I left him I felt it wasnt over and it will get to that soon. I try not to deal with coaches when it is very clear they are frustrated and angry as that only makes things weird but this situation I dont think I had any choice-- I was right in front when I made the call, he specifically called the TO to "discuss" with me and let me know that. One thing I did appreciate and my partner mentioned it earlier was that my partner DID NOT come in to help me out. this was a 1on1 converstaion if anything and I think help from the partner would have made it worse. He did ask me if I should have T'd him up during the TO and I said most guys would in that instance -- I didn't take anything personally, and I thought he was acting more out of frustration so I gave him the benefit of doubt. Home coach had a warning I felt that in this case the visitors deserved it too. Now if he had stepped over the line and blatantly insulted integrity or said some choice words no doubt about it but here its a personal choice why I DID NOT T. How, if you do, handle visibly irate coaches when they make it clear they want to have a word with you?

[Junker]

It sounds like a good T. A couple of things though, first of all, why is a coach in charge of officials at halftime of a game? This should not happen and other arrangements should be made. Secondly, since he was walking you to your room, I would caution you not to talk about the game. If you're going to warn him, do it during the game. You wouldn't put up with him complaining about things at the half, so I wouldn't initiate a conversation about the game to him.

[Raymond]

JMO, but any story that takes that long to tell means it took too long to call a T.

[deecee]

Junker thanks for the advise and it makes sense -- they had no other personnel to unlock the door.

BNR -- good point

[tomegun]

[quote=deecee]Coach is irate and starts Yelling "TIME OUT!!!!" (x) 3 or 4. I KNEW this TO was for a jaw session with me and I HAD to walk right by him as I was about 6-8 feet away when he called the TO. He starts going off about the contact and I calmly told him "coach let me report the foul and TO and if you have any questions I would answer them but I would prefer if you addressed your team FIRST during your TO." He didnt apparently want to address his team -- So while I am reporting foul and TO -- he is waiting outside the huddle for me. When I was done he said he used that TO to address my nocall. OK fine I will try and work with him here.

IMO, this is where we have to be jerks on purpose. You could not win, so you should walk him back to his bench and politely tell him to take his timeout.

coach: how was there no foul on that rebound my girl was hammered./?
me: Jim (name has been changed) are you asking me a question or making a statement. I can answer your question if you want.
coach: that was a foul and then you call that touch foul after.
me: Jim I am trying to work with you here but you are making it difficult. (now I start to move away slowly).
coach: I want you to officiate the game.
me: Jim this conversation is over I would suggest you drop it from here on in. (I could have T'd him here -- but this conversation was really only audible to me, him and his team and I can handle this).

That last statement would provoke/challenge many coaches.

Now I go to the other side of the gym as per full timout requirements and wait by the block. TO over and I hear "THAT's Horrible" -- I look over and Jim is staring at me he says again "That's horrible" and I give him the stop/cut it off hand signal. My partner is about the put the ball in play right by Jim's bench and he says again "That's really horrible" still looking at me and by then I had NO choice. T --

Oh yes. The almighty stop sign. How did that work out for you?

Jim: Yes you are just giving them the game Thank you.



I report the T
me: Jim you just gave them that I just called it. Partner calm him down and seat belt him.

Did you really say this? No reason for this at all.
[quote]

I think it was a good technical foul, but there was too much talking.

[jeffpea]

deecee -- kudos to you! IMHO I think you handled the situation well. Officials have different "tolerance levels" when dealing w/ coaches who are clearly frustrated or angry. The key is to do what you did - be the calmest person in the situation. You gave him a couple of chances to calm down and got out of there when it became apparent that he was only interested in yelling and not looking for an explanation.

Others will say that you gave him "too much rope".....I think the T should be the last resort after you've tried all of you other options.

As for handling visibly irate coaches, I think you need to explain that you're happy to answer questions or discuss a specific call. However the coach cannot scream and cannot make large gestures (which only incite the crowd and team). Keep in mind that you're NOT going to change their minds or convince them you're right. You're really trying to "talk them down from the ledge". I try to explain what I saw, use non-commital language ("I understand", "I hear you coach", "you're still in this game", etc), and then give him space. If he's still coming after you, "you've made your point; let's move on/we're not going to discuss any more". Lastly the stop sign....and ultimately the T. That's what I try to use. It's really a gut-feel thing; some games are better off w/ a T, while it's generally best to avoid them if you can help it. Sometimes you can't.......like your situation above.

[Dan_ref]

coach: how was there no foul on that rebound my girl was hammered?
me: Jim (name has been changed) Are you questioning my judgement?
coach: no but...
me: good...

and walk away.

[JRutledge]

All I can say is to address the behavior first, then answer their questions if their behavior changes.

This took some time for me to finally get a good hold of, but I will not discuss any situation with a coach until they act like they have some sense.

I had a situation this weekend in a huge rivarly game that I had to handle. I told both coaches they needed to get back to coaching because I was not going to tolerate this all night. I told both coaches the same thing and they went back to coaching and the rest of the game was fine.

If you addressed the behavior first (it is also easy to say that from behind a computer) you might not have needed to give a T. Also having said that, I really have no problem with what you did. The coach was likely testing you and might have kept on no matter what you said. Take it as a learning experience and get better from this point on.

Peace

[johnnyrao]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

coach: how was there no foul on that rebound my girl was hammered?

Me: "Coach (I would recommend not using first names), in my judgement, that was incidental contact"...then walk away.

It lets the coach know that you saw the contact but vhose not to penalize it because there was no foul by either player. There is not much a coach can say after that.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by johnnyrao

Me: "Coach (I would recommend not using first names), in my judgement, that was incidental contact"...then walk away.

It lets the coach know that you saw the contact but vhose not to penalize it because there was no foul by either player. There is not much a coach can say after that.

Nope, not me.

If a coach asks in a reasonable manner I will answer any question to the best of my ability within a reasonable amount of time.

If a coach calls a TO to get a piece of me he aint getting sh1t.

[deecee]

Dan i usually follow that principle but this time i had to mow through the wall to get to the well if you know what I mean

[Rich]

Originally Posted by deecee

Saturday evening GV

Snip!

Report the foul and head to the timeout spot. Choose the one opposite this coach's bench.

I never engage a coach (or try not to anyway) when the question is the equivalent of "when did you stop beating your wife"? He isn't "using a timeout to address a no call" cause I'm not staying around to "address" it.

When the coach assumes facts not in evidence (his player "getting hammered") you have absolutely no chance of having a rational discussion. Get out of there and if the coach starts yelling across the court, well, then everyone knows why you're whacking him.

[rainmaker]

When I'm doing my best work (which isn't always!) and a coach is making statements rather than asking questions, I find that just, "Thank you. Thank you. Thank you." works until I can get the heck away from them. I still don't understand why, but it really seems to cut off the flow and gets them back to the game. Sometimes, it even makes the fans laugh a little in a positive way. I don't get it, but hey, it gets the job done.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

When I'm doing my best work (which isn't always!) and a coach is making statements rather than asking questions, I find that just, "Thank you. Thank you. Thank you." works until I can get the heck away from them. I still don't understand why, but it really seems to cut off the flow and gets them back to the game. Sometimes, it even makes the fans laugh a little in a positive way. I don't get it, but hey, it gets the job done.

Or alternatively.....STFU, STFU, STFU...

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Or alternatively.....STFU, STFU, STFU...

Well, no, that's never worked for me.