New "Team Control" Signal

[refnrev]

Originally Posted by blindzebra

You punch the direction you are going so, lead is out in front, trail should punch to the side, and I think all fouls with control should be the punch, there is no need for two signals when the results of both calls are the same.

___________________________________________

Sorry zebra, but this is incorrect. Read toolman's reply. He nailed it! (No pun intended TT)

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by TimTaylor

I also verbalize everything while giving the signals, which really helps....and not just in team control situations!

I do not verbalize the type of foul, which is what the NFHS Officials Manual suggests.

[blindzebra]

Originally Posted by refnrev

___________________________________________

Sorry zebra, but this is incorrect. Read toolman's reply. He nailed it! (No pun intended TT)

Well perhaps having our state commissioner as the driving force on the NFHS rules committee for the signal being added means I may just have a little insight on how it is to be used despite a lack of clarification from the Fed.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by blindzebra

You might want to re-read that..."The signal will communicate that the ball is going the other direction and no free throws will be attempted." Hmmmm.

Couple that with the manual from 05-07 that we are still using...without the new signal...under fouls 230-e, if a team control foul point in the direction of the throw-in team's basket.

Where does it say the "Team Control signal" has to be pointing in the other direction of where you are going? To communicate that you are going the other way and to point the other way are not necessarily the same things.

I am just telling you what it says in the current and most recent literature in the NF Publication. It does not say the signal has to be in the direction of the basket, it just says how the signal is used. They just added the signal this year, so what a book might indicate that was published over a year ago does not apply. Either way it goes you do what you are told despite what the NF book says because any state can use mechanics outside of that book anyway.

Peace

[Texas Aggie]

JR: how can you have a SIGNAL that "will communicate that the ball is going the other direction" without pointing in that direction?

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie

JR: how can you have a SIGNAL that "will communicate that the ball is going the other direction" without pointing in that direction?

Easy. The definition of the signal itself indicates it. If there is a fist extended, then we know which way it will be going (assuming you know which team had control of the ball...which is usually pretty obvious).

[FishinRef]

Hasn't been a problem at all....this is how our SRI wants it done and it works really well.

Preliminary signals at point of foul:
Whistle & raised fist
Team Control signal straight out in front
Type of foul (block, hold, push, etc.)
Point to inbound location.

Reporting to the table:
Report color & number of player that committed foul
Team control signal, fist straight out in front
Indicate color & point direction ball is going.

I also verbalize everything while giving the signals, which really helps....and not just in team control situations!

Examples while giving signals above:
Initial Report - Team control, white 23, block, blue ball

Report to table - White foul, #23, team control, blue ball

I also use different voice levels for each - normal speaking volume for initial so players concerned know what's going on, louder & slower for report to table so anyone paying attention will know what the call is.

This is exactly how we were advised by our state board during this years rules clinic. Nice description TT.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie

JR: how can you have a SIGNAL that "will communicate that the ball is going the other direction" without pointing in that direction?

The signal only means one thing. BTW, there is nothing in the literature that indicates that we must point in a specific direction at the table. My main point is they do not say specifically that we have to point in the direction we are going or else. It might be our usual practice, but if you do not point in the proper way we are not going to change the meaning. No more than a player control foul signal would do.

Peace

[Mountaineer]

Originally Posted by blindzebra

Well perhaps having our state commissioner as the driving force on the NFHS rules committee for the signal being added means I may just have a little insight on how it is to be used despite a lack of clarification from the Fed.

A little bit of contrast here - OUR state commissioner was the chief opponant of the new signal. Of course Mary Struckoff wants to bring everything from the NCAA womens into the HS ranks. Our guy hates the signal tough. It's one of the few things I actually agree with him about . . .

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Mountaineer

A little bit of contrast here - OUR state commissioner was the chief opponant of the new signal. Of course Mary Struckoff wants to bring everything from the NCAA womens into the HS ranks. Our guy hates the signal tough. It's one of the few things I actually agree with him about . . .

We need some signal to let everyone know we are not shooting FTs with this new rule. There were a bunch of times last year where we wasted time answering questions about whether we shoot FTs or not. I really do not care what the signal was, just as long as there was one.

Peace

[Adam]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I really do not care what the signal was, just as long as there was one.
Peace

Wow, this opens up some ideas maybe we can submit to the Fed.

[blindzebra]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Where does it say the "Team Control signal" has to be pointing in the other direction of where you are going? To communicate that you are going the other way and to point the other way are not necessarily the same things.

I am just telling you what it says in the current and most recent literature in the NF Publication. It does not say the signal has to be in the direction of the basket, it just says how the signal is used. They just added the signal this year, so what a book might indicate that was published over a year ago does not apply. Either way it goes you do what you are told despite what the NF book says because any state can use mechanics outside of that book anyway.

Peace

The most current literature is the 2005-2007 officials manual where it says to point in the direction of the non-fouling team on a team control foul, and there is nothing in the handout that specifically says otherwise.

[blindzebra]

Originally Posted by Mountaineer

A little bit of contrast here - OUR state commissioner was the chief opponant of the new signal. Of course Mary Struckoff wants to bring everything from the NCAA womens into the HS ranks. Our guy hates the signal tough. It's one of the few things I actually agree with him about . . .

I love the signal, in fact if I had my way it would be the only signal for a player/team control foul...just rename it offensive control foul.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by blindzebra

The most current literature is the 2005-2007 officials manual where it says to point in the direction of the non-fouling team on a team control foul, and there is nothing in the handout that specifically says otherwise.

Considering that this was put out without a signal being approved, to use it now as evidence of something is a bit suspect. The publication that the NF used to introduce things like this did not indicate in any way you had to point towards a direction. That really was my only point on this. I know I point in the direction we are going, but it still is not required.

Wait until the next book comes out and see what that one says.

Peace

[Huntin' Ref]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

We need some signal to let everyone know we are not shooting FTs with this new rule.

Why? Coaches should know immediately if free throws are going to be shot and the fans will figure it out soon. I don't like using it in NCAA women's either.

Peace