Techical Foul-Ejection

[shave-tail]

I was watching my son play a junior high game. Early in the game a shot goes up and the lead official stops the game calling a Technical Foul and Ejected a player for an elbow to the face.

I told the father that the only time I ever called this was when a punch was thrown (ejection).

After the game the father when to the official....calmly and asked what happened? The official said that the player (his son) elbowed the player in the face and that is an automatic ejection. The official said it was not intentional or flagrant and felt sorry about calling it, but any time this happens ejection automatic.

Now, I got out of officating BB about 2 years ago, after many years and told the father that I had never heard of anything like that, but I would ask the pros. So is this something that I missed over the years or is this something new since I got out of the game or something just made up?

Thank in advance.

[Dan_ref]

Here's what you missed. Pay attention, it's important:

Never, never, never delude yourself into believing that as a former official you have the standing or the right to explain, justify, criticize, discuss, agree with, disagree with, or in any way comment on a call made by a floor official during a game. Your role is a fan, you have no standing whatsoever as an official. Being a former official grants you no special status. If you were a working official this behavior would lead to you being slapped down by your association. So just keep your yap shut. Got it? Yap. Shut.

That said, if this father came to me after a game to discuss what happened I would have walked past him without acknowledging his existence....except to game security, who would be told they need to take care of some jerk.

[shave-tail]

Hey,

I came to this formum to learn a rule that I have never seen before. If you can't or won't answer the question asked then keep your *** out of my post.

[mplagrow]

I'll try to answer your direct question. If you are asking if an elbow to the face is an automatic ejection according to NFHS rules, then no. There is no rule that an elbow to the face is an automatic ejection.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by shave-tail

Hey,

I came to this formum to learn a rule that I have never seen before. If you can't or won't answer the question asked then keep your *** out of my post.

Relax Mr ex-official.

You asked a question, I answered it.

Sorry you don't agree with my answer. Also sorry you're so sensitive about being disapproved of in public. Maybe now you can understand how the real official in your son's game might have felt about you publicly disapproving his call.

[HawkeyeCubP]

Originally Posted by shave-tail

I was watching my son play a junior high game. Early in the game a shot goes up and the lead official stops the game calling a Technical Foul and Ejected a player for an elbow to the face.

I told the father that the only time I ever called this was when a punch was thrown (ejection).

After the game the father when to the official....calmly and asked what happened? The official said that the player (his son) elbowed the player in the face and that is an automatic ejection. The official said it was not intentional or flagrant and felt sorry about calling it, but any time this happens ejection automatic.

Now, I got out of officating BB about 2 years ago, after many years and told the father that I had never heard of anything like that, but I would ask the pros. So is this something that I missed over the years or is this something new since I got out of the game or something just made up?

Thank in advance.

Unless an elbow to the face is ruled flagrant (or facegaurding with the elbow ), it is neither a technical foul nor a flagrant technical foul.

[bigdogrunnin]

Intentional foul maybe, but I know of no rule to support that officials explanation. Of course, I would have had to be there to comment any further.

[mplagrow]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

Relax Mr ex-official.

You asked a question, I answered it.

Sorry you don't agree with my answer. Also sorry you're so sensitive about being disapproved of in public. Maybe now you can understand how the real official in your son's game might have felt about you publicly disapproving his call.

Call off the hounds. Unless this guy has a history as a troll, I don't see that he deserves the business the way you are giving it to him.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by mplagrow

Call off the hounds. Unless this guy has a history as a troll, I don't see that he deserves the business the way you are giving it to him.

You don't?

Ex-official explains during a game to fellow fans that the real official's call is not correct?

How often do you do this?

[Texas Aggie]

I got out of officating BB about 2 years ago, after many years and told the father that I had never heard of anything like that

I have to admit that this statement above makes me suspicious. The reason is because you say you officiated basketball for "many years" and you don't seem to have a grasp on the confusion the official might have had between calling a technical foul and a flagrant foul. Had you worded the question something along the lines of "did the rules change with regard to flagrant fouls that aren't considered punches or fall within the definition of fighting," I could easily gather you did officiate for many years, as you are familiar with the rules here.

In other words, absent asking a SPECIFIC QUESTION about whether a rule has changed, you should know exactly what the official did and whether he was correct or incorrect.

The answer to your question is two-fold: 1) elbows to the face (or anywhere else) can easily be considered flagrant fouls and thus warrant a DQ (ejection in Fed rules are for coaches); 2) The official probably misspoke when saying the contact wasn't flagrant and that it was an automatic technical. He could have been inexperienced, read the rule wrong, been misinformed, or a number of other things. He could also have simply incorrectly stated what he did or what he called. I've done that before, usually when I'm thinking of something else while responding to someone.

[HawkeyeCubP]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

You asked a question, I answered it.

Actually, you didn't. May I recommend something from our decaffinated selection?

Originally Posted by shave-tail

So is this something that I missed over the years or is this something new since I got out of the game or something just made up?

I'm just sayin'.

Edited to include:

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

You don't?

Ex-official explains during a game to fellow fans that the real official's call is not correct?

How often do you do this?

Gotcha. I understand, but yikes!

[mplagrow]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

You don't?

Ex-official explains during a game to fellow fans that the real official's call is not correct?

How often do you do this?

You're absolutely right about that, and I'd never do it. Big taboo no-no. That aside, I think he approached the forum with a reasonable question, and while I understand that you wish to correct the errant behavior, it seemed a little harsh IMO. Sorta the proverbial lightning bolt out of the clear sky. No offense!

[shave-tail]

I didn't say it was an incorrect call I said I didn't know and would ask.

[mplagrow]

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie

The answer to your question is two-fold: 1) elbows to the face (or anywhere else) can easily be considered flagrant fouls and thus warrant a DQ (ejection in Fed rules are for coaches); 2) The official probably misspoke when saying the contact wasn't flagrant and that it was an automatic technical. He could have been inexperienced, read the rule wrong, been misinformed, or a number of other things. He could also have simply incorrectly stated what he did or what he called. I've done that before, usually when I'm thinking of something else while responding to someone.

One more possibility. Shave Tail has it secondhand from the father what the ref said or didn't say. It probably got lost in translation.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by mplagrow

You're absolutely right about that, and I'd never do it. Big taboo no-no.

Then we agree.

Thanks.