Techical Foul-Ejection

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

Let me answer this way:

Not EVERYBODY loves Raymond.

Damn, now I realize why I have a self-esteem problem, I thought I WAS universally loved.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

But this discussion about telling everybody the exact truth was just on, including the part about telling the daughter about Santa. Thought maybe you were, uh, borrowing...

As you know I have no objection to, as you put it, borrowing, from other sources.

But I do not watch that unfunny annoying Raymond thing.

[Adam]

Dan, now you've done it. You've gone and made the Jurassic one cry.

[Adam]

"According to Jim," now there's some funny comedy.

[HawkeyeCubP]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

edit...

and btw, decaf will give you cancer. It's true, I read it on the internet.

Nice.

[HawkeyeCubP]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

2) If the contact occurred during a live ball, it can never be called a technical foul. The 4 options on the elbow call are a player or team control foul(dependant on whether the elbower was holding or dribbling the ball at the time of the elbow), an intentional personal foul or a flagrant personal foul.

If the live ball act (an elbow to the insert-body-part-here) was deemed to be "fighting" by the official, would it not be a (flagrant) technical foul?

10-3-9 Player Techincal - A player shall not: Be charged with fighting.

4-18 Fighting - Fighting is a flagrant act and can occur when the ball is dead or live.

And doesn't this contradict 4-19-4?

4-19-4 A flagrant foul may be a personal or technical foul of a violent or savage nature, or a technical noncontact foul which displays unacceptable conduct. It may or may not be intentional. If personal, it involves, but is not limited to violent contact such as: striking, kicking and kneeing. If technical, it involves dead-ball contact or noncontact at any time which is extreme or persistent, vulgar or abusive conduct. Fighting is a flagrant act.

[Adam]

If it's fighting during live ball action, call it a flagrant personal. The question is, with a flagrant personal and a flagrant technical, can you offset the penalties and not shoot the free throws?

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

The higher-up's reply to that very specific question was that you could call a technical foul on anybody at any time.

Fine, you know that's what he was talking about and I know that's what he was talking about, but Chess Ref didn't say in his post that's what he was talking about.

You and I both know the relevant rules. I'm not arguing with you over the rule. I am simply pointing out that an official CAN call a technical foul on anybody at anytime. I am simply pointing that out for the 2% of people that might stroll through this thread and NOT understand what you and I know about the situation.

When taken at their face value, the way they are presented in Chess Ref's post, the words spoken by the higher-up are true. When applied ONLY to the more narrow context of live ball contact (which was NOT done in Chess Ref's post), then we can say that you can't assess a technical foul for that particular infraction. You can still give a T, but not for that particular infraction.

[HawkeyeCubP]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

If it's fighting during live ball action, call it a flagrant personal. The question is, with a flagrant personal and a flagrant technical, can you offset the penalties and not shoot the free throws?

Methinks that if the flagrant personal and flagrant techincal were the two parts of a double foul, than we would go to POI. If they were the two parts of a false double foul, than we would shoot free throws, however accordingly.
Yes?

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

Ahhh...a philosophical discussion in which you take the part of the absolutist. I love those...

I don't think I took that part. There are several options. I listed the relevant ones that I could think of. Your response fit quite naturally (without any help from me) into option 1. Are there options that I didn't list?

why don't you take an absolutist whack at this:

You find it hard to lie to friends and family? How old was your daughter when she stumbled onto the cold hard truth that there really is no Santa Claus?

You may laugh at this, but I had a really hard time perpetuating the Santa thing. My wife really loved how excited my daughter would get, so I went along; but I really didn't like it and I didn't participate in it. In fact, I would take my daughter with me to pick out my wife's stocking gifts. This made my wife mad, but it was my attempt at being honest, as far as I could.

[HawkeyeCubP]

Originally Posted by tomegun

Wow, I had to quote myself!

I have been reading (on this board) and listening (in my local area) about officials calling technical fouls on contact during live balls. So my question was asking if this is happening a lot. I ask that because it shouldn't be! We are talking about contact during a live ball. Please don't muddy the waters by adding unsportsmanlike act into the equation. Make your own equation for that!

I'm not, and I never have (knock-knock on the desk), but I would for a live ball act of fighting or contact by a non-player (i.e. recent threads talking about a member of bench personnel intentionally interfering by contacting a player).

[Adam]

Originally Posted by HawkeyeCubP

Methinks that if the flagrant personal and flagrant techincal were the two parts of a double foul, than we would go to POI. If they were the two parts of a false double foul, than we would shoot free throws, however accordingly.
Yes?

I'm talking specifically about a flagrant personal (he's starting a fight while the ball is live) and the flagrant T for fighting back.

[archangel]

"Me thinks danref protests too much"....The overly strong initial response from him suggests a sich that happened to him once as the floor official--a possible public comment from a fellow official that showed him up (ala his "Rule #1")--a HTBT, I guess...
He is right that a fellow ref never comments negatively on anothers actions, but an ex-ref is just another "fan", and I dont listen to fans, so say all you want, you bought a ticket....
And as an official watching as a fan, if asked a Q from friends or family, I answer it. BFD if someone else doesnt like it- - the world hasnt ended. Maybe decaf is the answer.....

[HawkeyeCubP]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I'm talking specifically about a flagrant personal (he's starting a fight while the ball is live) and the flagrant T for fighting back.

Then part two of my answer - a simple, yet slightly more complicated than the typical, false double foul. Shoot 'em up, however accordingly.

Simple scenario, A1 gets the ball stolen by B1. A1 is having a bad night and yells "You F***ing Su*k" towards B1 loud enough for you to hear.

1. What would the proper call be?
2. Could this be an unsporting technical during a live-ball?
3. What is the penalty?

Not trying to prove a point, I'm just trying to further my education. This whole discussion just raised some questions.

I'll sit down and be quiet now.

Thanks