10 seconds

[budjones05]

right! kind of like instant replay, however the coach has to find a rule book..i dont have to let him use mine

[MadCityRef]

What state is that, and what is considered "reasonable"?

[budjones05]

I am from missouri
Reasonable--10 seconds on the free throw line or lost of the coaching box after a T or anything thats consider to be correctable in the rule book or if the score counts after a player and/or team control foul

Not reasonable--thats not a foul (block/charge) stuff like that

[jmaellis]

Calif. volleyball is similar. Coach can challenge the existence of a specific rule, but not judgment calls. If the coach is right the ruling is corrected, if he/she is wrong the coach is penalized by having to burn a timeout; if no timeouts are left then the coach is penalized with a point to the other team, and if applicable, loss of rally.

If all things were equal, the BB coach could challenge that a "rule" exists that requires the free throw shooter to shoot the ball w/i 10 seconds; but could not challenge whether or not 10 seconds actually expired.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by budjones05

I am from missouri
Reasonable--10 seconds on the free throw line or lost of the coaching box after a T or anything thats consider to be correctable in the rule book or if the score counts after a player and/or team control foul

Not reasonable--thats not a foul (block/charge) stuff like that

You're not really serious, are you?

10 seconds on the FT line is a judgment call -as to the official's counting speed. Loss of the coaching box is a simple rule that's been in forever. None of those are correctable.

If a coach ever pulled a rule book on me re: any kinda crap like that, he'd be reading it with his dashboard lights in the parking lot.

Are you sure that you're not just confusing an "appeal" with the normal correctable error procedure as laid out in R2-10 and R5-8-4?

Is there any else from Missouri that can confirm that they've got a system like that there?

[Adam]

The system as described (able only to challenge the existence of a rule such as punching violation or 10 seconds to shoot a freethrow or traveling on a throw-in) seems "reasonable." Lord knows it might educate the occasional referee and coach.

[LDUB]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

10 seconds on the FT line is a judgment call -as to the official's counting speed. Loss of the coaching box is a simple rule that's been in forever. None of those are correctable.

It makes sense to me. The official calls the makes the call at 10 seconds, but the coach belives that the shooter gets 15 seconds. The coach isn't protesting the counting of the official, he is protesting what the official is counting to.

A24 enters the game but in the score book his number is listed as 22. The officials assess the HC with an indirect T and inform him that he has lost the use of the coaching box. There is a whole chart in the back of the rule book saying when the HC is assesd an indirect techincal foul, it isn't very hard to imagine that somone somewhere has messed that up. The coach then pulls out his rule book and shows the officials that he is not assesed an indirect T in that situation.

[Adam]

What better way to get coaches to read the rule book?

[mplagrow]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

What better way to get coaches to read the rule book?

I could almost see it as a tool to shut the coach up. "Gee, coach, if you're so sure I'm wrong, why doncha call a time out so we can look it up? PLEEASE???" Truth is, most coaches just want to rant and complain, not actually to be right.

One thing I have to add to this is that in virtually every counting situation, the player is actually getting a bit more than the alotted time to make the play. I have yet to see a ref at any level, make a 10 second count in real time. If they were, their arm would be swinging a lot faster than it normally is. I've tried it, and timed other refs, and 10 seconds has usually elapsed by the time the ref got to 6 or 7.
That said, when a player gets called for a time violation, he usually deserves it.

[Adam]

On everything but free throws and 3 seconds, I try to time my counts with the clock. Every now and then I watch for three seconds and verify, to keep my count timed. If the defense earns a 10 second back court or a 5 second held or dribbled ball or 5 second throw-in, it's not fair to hold my whistle an extra couple seconds. Agressive defenses sometimes start fouling when they don't get their earned 5 seconds.

[budjones05]

Originally Posted by mplagrow

I could almost see it as a tool to shut the coach up. "Gee, coach, if you're so sure I'm wrong, why doncha call a time out so we can look it up? PLEEASE???" Truth is, most coaches just want to rant and complain, not actually to be right.

I've been doing this for 3 years and let me tell you, i had never had a coach prove me wrong

[Kelvin green]

I have to tell you, I still think this is the dumbest thing I have heard about. Cnt believe anyone would rvrn think about this... If the coach is right then he does not lose his time out

I want to call time out because I dont think it was a travel.. lets look up the jump stop rule everytime I call it?

I want to call time out because (you insert it) we can look it up and tell you your interp is wrong....

If there are no time outs?

[Adam]

Kelvin, that's just it. Black and white rules references only. Travels are judgment calls, and judgment calls aren't eligible for protest. Coaches aren't going to waste their timeouts when they don't know the rules. When they do know the rules, then the refs won't have to worry about so much griping.

Also, FWIW, there ought to be some recourse when the refs are making calls that have no rules basis; such as "first to touch," or traveling on a throw-in, or giving the HC an indirect for changing the book after the 10 minute mark. I like it as long as judgment calls are exempt, and as long as there is a punishment for losing the protest. If there are no timeouts, either disallow the protest, or give them their timeout (and it's accompanying technical foul).

[budjones05]

Originally Posted by Kelvin green

I have to tell you, I still think this is the dumbest thing I have heard about. Cnt believe anyone would rvrn think about this... If the coach is right then he does not lose his time out

I want to call time out because I dont think it was a travel.. lets look up the jump stop rule everytime I call it?

I want to call time out because (you insert it) we can look it up and tell you your interp is wrong....

If there are no time outs?

Kelvin, judgement calls are not protestable. If the coach is out of time outs, then he is s.o.l. They can protest anything that is not a judgement call. Fouls and traveling are not consider to be protestable. He can't protest whether or not a person has been illegally touch or not but they can protest whether or not a charge results in free throws because that put the other team in the bonus