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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Tue Dec 12, 2006, 10:19pm
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Are Things Changing?

Has the relationship between referees and coaches gotten better, or is it just me? In eight years as a coach, and two years as a referee, I have never seen a coach get a call changed (even when he was right). This year, my team has played four games, and I have seen three calls changed -
1. A charge with my team over the limit. The official goes down to the other end to administer free throws, and I state "Mr. Official, there was no team control". He responds, "Your right, coach", and proceeds to confer with his partner before administering the throw in instead.
2.) We had a player pushed from behind who made the basket as the foul was called. The official gave him 2 shots, but waved off the basket. When I asked how it could be a shooting foul but the basket not count, the ref shrugged and continued on. BUT, at the next timeout, he got both coaches together and said they were going to count the basket since it was a shooting foul.
3.) I had a player foul out, and called my team over for a quick word. The official tried to charge me with a timeout. I stated that I had one minute to make my sub, the referee smiled and said "30 seconds actually, but that's all you used."

Is it just me getting a better grasp of the rules, or are basketball officials becoming more willing to work with the coaches to get calls right? It reminds me of the movement in baseball a few years ago away from the confrontational atmosphere that existed between officials and coaches to a more 'let's work together to get it right' mindset. If this so, it is a welcome change, for both sides.
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Old Tue Dec 12, 2006, 11:02pm
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Not sure what it means for ref-coach relationships, but your refs did mess up a few rules.

In #2, the statute of limitations may or may not have run out on the correctable error procedure for counting a basket.

Also, in #3, if the sub isn't ready in 30 seconds, no timeout is charged. Rather, a technical foul is assessed directly to the head coach. (Wanted to make sure you know that so you don't try to do it when you have refs who know the rule!)
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Old Tue Dec 12, 2006, 11:03pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tarheelcoach
He responds, "Your right, coach"
Is that like a "my bad?"
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Old Tue Dec 12, 2006, 11:09pm
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Originally Posted by tarheelcoach
He responds, "Your right, coach"



Is that like a "my bad?"
In this instance, Mr. Annoying Spelling guy would not come into play as the spoken word is the same for both your and you're.
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Old Wed Dec 13, 2006, 12:04am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 26 Year Gap
Originally Posted by tarheelcoach
He responds, "Your right, coach"



Is that like a "my bad?"
In this instance, Mr. Annoying Spelling guy would not come into play as the spoken word is the same for both your and you're.
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Old Wed Dec 13, 2006, 12:56am
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Ahhh, yes! The classic picture defining the difference between "your" and "you're." If that doesn't put a smile on your face, then I don't know what does.
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Old Wed Dec 13, 2006, 03:32am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tarheelcoach
Has the relationship between referees and coaches gotten better, or is it just me? In eight years as a coach, and two years as a referee, I have never seen a coach get a call changed (even when he was right). This year, my team has played four games, and I have seen three calls changed -
1. A charge with my team over the limit. The official goes down to the other end to administer free throws, and I state "Mr. Official, there was no team control". He responds, "Your right, coach", and proceeds to confer with his partner before administering the throw in instead.
2.) We had a player pushed from behind who made the basket as the foul was called. The official gave him 2 shots, but waved off the basket. When I asked how it could be a shooting foul but the basket not count, the ref shrugged and continued on. BUT, at the next timeout, he got both coaches together and said they were going to count the basket since it was a shooting foul.
3.) I had a player foul out, and called my team over for a quick word. The official tried to charge me with a timeout. I stated that I had one minute to make my sub, the referee smiled and said "30 seconds actually, but that's all you used."

Is it just me getting a better grasp of the rules, or are basketball officials becoming more willing to work with the coaches to get calls right? It reminds me of the movement in baseball a few years ago away from the confrontational atmosphere that existed between officials and coaches to a more 'let's work together to get it right' mindset. If this so, it is a welcome change, for both sides.

For #2, you can have situations where there's a shooting foul, but the basket is disallowed.

For example, if a player is fouled in the act, then commits a travel prior to releasing the ball, you're still going to give him the 2 shots, as he was fouled during the try, but you can't count the basket because it was scored as a direct result of a violation.
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Old Wed Dec 13, 2006, 07:43am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tarheelcoach
Has the relationship between referees and coaches gotten better, or is it just me? In eight years as a coach, and two years as a referee, I have never seen a coach get a call changed (even when he was right). This year, my team has played four games, and I have seen three calls changed -
1. A charge with my team over the limit. The official goes down to the other end to administer free throws, and I state "Mr. Official, there was no team control". He responds, "Your right, coach", and proceeds to confer with his partner before administering the throw in instead.
2.) We had a player pushed from behind who made the basket as the foul was called. The official gave him 2 shots, but waved off the basket. When I asked how it could be a shooting foul but the basket not count, the ref shrugged and continued on. BUT, at the next timeout, he got both coaches together and said they were going to count the basket since it was a shooting foul.
3.) I had a player foul out, and called my team over for a quick word. The official tried to charge me with a timeout. I stated that I had one minute to make my sub, the referee smiled and said "30 seconds actually, but that's all you used."

Is it just me getting a better grasp of the rules, or are basketball officials becoming more willing to work with the coaches to get calls right? It reminds me of the movement in baseball a few years ago away from the confrontational atmosphere that existed between officials and coaches to a more 'let's work together to get it right' mindset. If this so, it is a welcome change, for both sides.
You should be worried; you have some officials who don't know the rules.
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Old Wed Dec 13, 2006, 07:56am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 26 Year Gap
Originally Posted by tarheelcoach
He responds, "Your right, coach"



Is that like a "my bad?"
In this instance, Mr. Annoying Spelling guy would not come into play as the spoken word is the same for both your and you're.
If not a spelling difference, where would the difference lie?
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Old Wed Dec 13, 2006, 08:35am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 26 Year Gap
In this instance, Mr. Annoying Spelling guy would not come into play as the spoken word is the same for both your and you're.
Mr. Annoying Etymology Guy has to disagree. When spoken, 'your' and 'you're' are homynyms. They may be pronounced the same way, but they are definately different words.

In addition, once the words are written out, the difference comes into play.
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Old Wed Dec 13, 2006, 08:36am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ref18
For #2, you can have situations where there's a shooting foul, but the basket is disallowed.

For example, if a player is fouled in the act, then commits a travel prior to releasing the ball, you're still going to give him the 2 shots, as he was fouled during the try, but you can't count the basket because it was scored as a direct result of a violation.
Or if the foul occurs, then the horn signalling the end of the period sounds.
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Old Wed Dec 13, 2006, 09:13am
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If you're watching the game and your player gets fouled you should know what it was the official called!

Question is this this - if they counted the basket later - how did they account for the two Free throws they allowed if the second one, or both were good? Intentional foul? then who got the ball after the free throws?

That team control thing is a little out of whack and needs some more information too - because it looks like your team had the ball if it was a charge -

the problem runs deeper than just have time changed you have some officials who do not know what the hell is going on and need to learn the d^%n rules before they give the rest of us a bad name!

Last edited by OHBBREF; Wed Dec 13, 2006 at 09:16am.
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 13, 2006, 09:14am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tarheelcoach
1. A charge with my team over the limit. The official goes down to the other end to administer free throws, and I state "Mr. Official, there was no team control". He responds, "Your right, coach", and proceeds to confer with his partner before administering the throw in instead.
I must be missing something, but this scenario makes no sense at all to me. FTs are shot when there is no team control. FTs are not shot when there is team control.
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  #14 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 13, 2006, 09:17am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tarheelcoach
1. A charge with my team over the limit. The official goes down to the other end to administer free throws, and I state "Mr. Official, there was no team control". He responds, "Your right, coach", and proceeds to confer with his partner before administering the throw in instead.
So you have a common foul, while the team is over the limit, there's NO team control, and the official decides not to shoot bonus free throws?!?!
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Old Wed Dec 13, 2006, 09:50am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrapper1
So you have a common foul, while the team is over the limit, there's NO team control, and the official decides not to shoot bonus free throws?!?!
We're halfway through the second season of the HS team control foul, and I'm still running into officials that don't understand it.
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