Are Things Changing?

[tarheelcoach]

Has the relationship between referees and coaches gotten better, or is it just me? In eight years as a coach, and two years as a referee, I have never seen a coach get a call changed (even when he was right). This year, my team has played four games, and I have seen three calls changed -
1. A charge with my team over the limit. The official goes down to the other end to administer free throws, and I state "Mr. Official, there was no team control". He responds, "Your right, coach", and proceeds to confer with his partner before administering the throw in instead.
2.) We had a player pushed from behind who made the basket as the foul was called. The official gave him 2 shots, but waved off the basket. When I asked how it could be a shooting foul but the basket not count, the ref shrugged and continued on. BUT, at the next timeout, he got both coaches together and said they were going to count the basket since it was a shooting foul.
3.) I had a player foul out, and called my team over for a quick word. The official tried to charge me with a timeout. I stated that I had one minute to make my sub, the referee smiled and said "30 seconds actually, but that's all you used."

Is it just me getting a better grasp of the rules, or are basketball officials becoming more willing to work with the coaches to get calls right? It reminds me of the movement in baseball a few years ago away from the confrontational atmosphere that existed between officials and coaches to a more 'let's work together to get it right' mindset. If this so, it is a welcome change, for both sides.

[Mark Dexter]

Not sure what it means for ref-coach relationships, but your refs did mess up a few rules.

In #2, the statute of limitations may or may not have run out on the correctable error procedure for counting a basket.

Also, in #3, if the sub isn't ready in 30 seconds, no timeout is charged. Rather, a technical foul is assessed directly to the head coach. (Wanted to make sure you know that so you don't try to do it when you have refs who know the rule!)

[ChrisSportsFan]

Originally Posted by Mark Dexter

Not sure what it means for ref-coach relationships, but your refs did mess up a few rules.

In #2, the statute of limitations may or may not have run out on the correctable error procedure for counting a basket.

Also, in #3, if the sub isn't ready in 30 seconds, no timeout is charged. Rather, a technical foul is assessed directly to the head coach. (Wanted to make sure you know that so you don't try to do it when you have refs who know the rule!)

Mark, how long do YOU say the statute of limitations is for #2?

[Mark Dexter]

Originally Posted by ChrisSportsFan

Mark, how long do YOU say the statute of limitations is for #2?

Well, it's a combination of 2-10-1 b and e. Therefore, that timeout needs to be the first dead ball after the clock properly starts following the free throws. In the original situation, that may or may not be the case.

[Mark Dexter]

Originally Posted by tarheelcoach

He responds, "Your right, coach"

Is that like a "my bad?"

[26 Year Gap]

Originally Posted by tarheelcoach
He responds, "Your right, coach"


Is that like a "my bad?"
In this instance, Mr. Annoying Spelling guy would not come into play as the spoken word is the same for both your and you're.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by 26 Year Gap

Originally Posted by tarheelcoach
He responds, "Your right, coach"


Is that like a "my bad?"
In this instance, Mr. Annoying Spelling guy would not come into play as the spoken word is the same for both your and you're.

[tjones1]

Ahhh, yes! The classic picture defining the difference between "your" and "you're." If that doesn't put a smile on your face, then I don't know what does.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by 26 Year Gap

Originally Posted by tarheelcoach
He responds, "Your right, coach"


Is that like a "my bad?"
In this instance, Mr. Annoying Spelling guy would not come into play as the spoken word is the same for both your and you're.

If not a spelling difference, where would the difference lie?

[Mark Dexter]

Originally Posted by 26 Year Gap

In this instance, Mr. Annoying Spelling guy would not come into play as the spoken word is the same for both your and you're.

Mr. Annoying Etymology Guy has to disagree. When spoken, 'your' and 'you're' are homynyms. They may be pronounced the same way, but they are definately different words.

In addition, once the words are written out, the difference comes into play.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Mark Dexter

Mr. Annoying Etymology Guy has to disagree. When spoken, 'your' and 'you're' are homynyms.

Where's Mr. Annoying Spelling guy when you need him?

And: I suspect that Mr. Annoying Etymology Guy knows that homonyms are not a function of etymology, nor are words homonyms only when spoken.

[Mark Dexter]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Where's Mr. Annoying Spelling guy when you need him?

Right here. Damn - I knew I should have looked it up; was rushing out the door, though.

And: I suspect that Mr. Annoying Etymology Guy knows that homonyms are not a function of etymology, nor are words homonyms only when spoken.

They don't necessarily have the same etymology. Once again, was looking for an impressive word as I ran out the door.

[26 Year Gap]

Originally Posted by Mark Dexter

Mr. Annoying Etymology Guy has to disagree. When spoken, 'your' and 'you're' are homynyms. They may be pronounced the same way, but they are definately different words.

In addition, once the words are written out, the difference comes into play.

But they were spoken. He only wrote them down to explain the situation. Wouldn't be the first time a coach misinterpreted something.

[ref18]

Originally Posted by tarheelcoach

Has the relationship between referees and coaches gotten better, or is it just me? In eight years as a coach, and two years as a referee, I have never seen a coach get a call changed (even when he was right). This year, my team has played four games, and I have seen three calls changed -
1. A charge with my team over the limit. The official goes down to the other end to administer free throws, and I state "Mr. Official, there was no team control". He responds, "Your right, coach", and proceeds to confer with his partner before administering the throw in instead.
2.) We had a player pushed from behind who made the basket as the foul was called. The official gave him 2 shots, but waved off the basket. When I asked how it could be a shooting foul but the basket not count, the ref shrugged and continued on. BUT, at the next timeout, he got both coaches together and said they were going to count the basket since it was a shooting foul.
3.) I had a player foul out, and called my team over for a quick word. The official tried to charge me with a timeout. I stated that I had one minute to make my sub, the referee smiled and said "30 seconds actually, but that's all you used."

Is it just me getting a better grasp of the rules, or are basketball officials becoming more willing to work with the coaches to get calls right? It reminds me of the movement in baseball a few years ago away from the confrontational atmosphere that existed between officials and coaches to a more 'let's work together to get it right' mindset. If this so, it is a welcome change, for both sides.

For #2, you can have situations where there's a shooting foul, but the basket is disallowed.

For example, if a player is fouled in the act, then commits a travel prior to releasing the ball, you're still going to give him the 2 shots, as he was fouled during the try, but you can't count the basket because it was scored as a direct result of a violation.

[Mark Dexter]

Originally Posted by ref18

For #2, you can have situations where there's a shooting foul, but the basket is disallowed.

For example, if a player is fouled in the act, then commits a travel prior to releasing the ball, you're still going to give him the 2 shots, as he was fouled during the try, but you can't count the basket because it was scored as a direct result of a violation.

Or if the foul occurs, then the horn signalling the end of the period sounds.