Unbeckoned coach...

[eyezen]

Greetings:

In my 2 whistle game last night in first half I am Trail opposite and my partner has a block between A1 and B1 down at the block. Both kids go down hard and there is a loud thud. Before I can blink I catch A coach out at the midcourt line on the court in an attempt to see if the kid is allright. I say to him "Hold on for second coach we'll beckon you if needed."

He's excited with concern for his player and says: "I've seen bad things happen when kids hit there head." but to his credit everything is cordial and he goes back to the bench.

Both kids get up relatively quickly, shake it off and A1 shoots two.

Should we have by rule made A1 leave even though coach A never went all the way to player A1?

[IREFU2]

Let it slide, the safety of the kids is all that matters.

[Junker]

Sounds like you caught him early. You handled it just fine.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by eyezen

Greetings:

In my 2 whistle game last night in first half I am Trail opposite and my partner has a block between A1 and B1 down at the block. Both kids go down hard and there is a loud thud. Before I can blink I catch A coach out at the midcourt line on the court in an attempt to see if the kid is allright. I say to him "Hold on for second coach we'll beckon you if needed."

He's excited with concern for his player and says: "I've seen bad things happen when kids hit there head." but to his credit everything is cordial and he goes back to the bench.

Both kids get up relatively quickly, shake it off and A1 shoots two.

Should we have by rule made A1 leave even though coach A never went all the way to player A1?

By rule that is a direct technical foul on the coach. I would tell the coach that I am letting that slide, but as a trade-off he is going to remove A1 from the game or take a time-out. That is probably the best way to handle it.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

By rule that is a direct technical foul on the coach. I would tell the coach that I am letting that slide, but as a trade-off he is going to remove A1 from the game or take a time-out. That is probably the best way to handle it.

Any coach that comes onto the floor to tend to an apparently injured player IS beckoned (at least in my games)....and the player will need to be replaced (or take a timeout). I'll make no mention of coming onto the floor to the coach...aside from requiring the sub.

Now, if he's yelling at me along the way, it may turn out different.

[26 Year Gap]

I was taught to get the beckon hand going in that situation.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Any coach that comes onto the floor to tend to an apparently injured player IS beckoned (at least in my games)....and the player will need to be replaced (or take a timeout). I'll make no mention of coming onto the floor to the coach...aside from requiring the sub.

Now, if he's yelling at me along the way, it may turn out different.

Exactly. If a player is injured, the coach can considered himself beckoned whether he was or not. And I also agree that if the coach comes out, the player leaves.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Any coach that comes onto the floor to tend to an apparently injured player IS beckoned (at least in my games)....and the player will need to be replaced (or take a timeout). I'll make no mention of coming onto the floor to the coach...aside from requiring the sub.

Now, if he's yelling at me along the way, it may turn out different.

Camron,
We're saying the same thing. I agree with your post, but if he gives me any grief about replacing the player, then he needs to be informed of the break that he just got.

[SmokeEater]

I had this situation last season. The Coach may not necessarily need to be beckoned onto the floor to tend to an injured/or apparently injured player. BUT, once they enter the playing area the player MUST be replaced by a substitution. Somewhere in rule 3 section 14, I think, going by memory here.

[bronco]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

By rule that is a direct technical foul on the coach. I would tell the coach that I am letting that slide, but as a trade-off he is going to remove A1 from the game or take a time-out. That is probably the best way to handle it.

I disagree that this is a technical foul on the coach. Case book play 3.3.5 sit B says

A1 appears to be injured and an official properly halts play and the Team A coach rushes onto the court to check A1. However, A1 is okay and seems ready to play within a few seconds. Ruling: A1 must be removed as the coach came onto the court. A1 may remain in the game if the coach does not come on the court and A1 is ready to play immediately. If the coach or other bench personnel have come onto the court, the player must be replaced. There is no set amount of time as to what is "immediately," but it should not involve more than a few seconds and it must be without the coach, trainer or doctor being beckoned and/or entering the court. The coach may also call a time-out to keep the player in the game.

It doesn't say the coach was beckoned, rather it says that the coach rushes onto the court. And at the end, it says both being beckoned and/or entering. Also, it doesn't say a T should be called, so if the NFHS wanted a T called, wouldn't the case book play say to do that?

[Nevadaref]

Interesting point regarding the case book play. I happen to think that it is inconsistent with the rules book. However, I happen to agree with not penalizing a coach who is simply concerned about the health of a kid.

The following rule is very plainly written. How do you consider that the case book play trumps it?



10-4-2
The head coach is responsible for the conduct and behavior of substitutes, disqualified team members and all other bench personnel. Bench personnel shall not:
. . . Enter the court unless by permission of an official to attend an injured player.

PENALTY: (Arts. 1, 2, 3, 4) Two free throws plus ball for division-line throw-in. If the head coach is the offender, the foul is charged directly to him/her.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Interesting point regarding the case book play. I happen to think that it is inconsistent with the rules book. However, I happen to agree with not penalizing a coach who is simply concerned about the health of a kid.

The following rule is very plainly written. How do you consider that the case book play trumps it?



10-4-2
The head coach is responsible for the conduct and behavior of substitutes, disqualified team members and all other bench personnel. Bench personnel shall not:
. . . Enter the court unless by permission of an official to attend an injured player.

PENALTY: (Arts. 1, 2, 3, 4) Two free throws plus ball for division-line throw-in. If the head coach is the offender, the foul is charged directly to him/her.

1) It doesn't say "prior permission."

2) Coaches (nearly) always have my permission to attend to an injured player, whether I'm explicit about granting it or not.

[Ref Daddy]

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser

Exactly. If a player is injured, the coach can considered himself beckoned whether he was or not. And I also agree that if the coach comes out, the player leaves.

Right on. Give the Coach some leeway - but they get on the court - the player leaves.

We are advised to show great care with a down player. Stop play ASAP. Get players away and let experts attend to them.

If you waive a coach off and the kid is hurt - or has some ailment the coach knows about - bad ankle, concussion last game, sore back, dad's a lawyer, etc - best you "pass the issue" to the Coach immediatly.

[deecee]

nevada why would you tell the coach to sub the player -- if you stopped him half way he really hasn't tended to any player he just got stopped by you.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Interesting point regarding the case book play. I happen to think that it is inconsistent with the rules book. However, I happen to agree with not penalizing a coach who is simply concerned about the health of a kid.

The following rule is very plainly written. How do you consider that the case book play trumps it?



10-4-2
The head coach is responsible for the conduct and behavior of substitutes, disqualified team members and all other bench personnel. Bench personnel shall not:
. . . Enter the court unless by permission of an official to attend an injured player.

PENALTY: (Arts. 1, 2, 3, 4) Two free throws plus ball for division-line throw-in. If the head coach is the offender, the foul is charged directly to him/her.

(Not directed specifially at you, Nevada. Just carrying on the conversation)

Two words: INTENT and PURPOSE.

Despite what the letter of the rule says, there is a reason for every rule in the book. Many are also written as if there are no complicating factors from other normally unrelated rules. They're not always meant to be taken literally....they meant to be considered in the context of the game....not alone. The casebook is merely there to give insight into that.

If they spelled out ever possible situation and what do do, they book would be hundreds or even thousands of pages.