The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball
Register FAQ Community Calendar Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Tue Dec 05, 2006, 09:44pm
In Memoriam
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Hell
Posts: 20,211
Yes.
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 06, 2006, 08:32am
Lighten up, Francis.
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,700
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
Quote:
Originally Posted by yankeesfan
team A has the ball in the backcourt, he passes the ball and a player from team A jumps from the frontcourt and catches the ball in the air and then lands in the backcourt. is this is a backcourt violation?
Yes.
What? You're not gonna tell him he's wise beyond his years?

Last edited by Scrapper1; Wed Dec 06, 2006 at 09:03am.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 06, 2006, 09:27am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Lakewood, Ohio
Posts: 718
What about if its the inbound play to start the 2d quarter? Since its an inbounds play, does A2 have front court status before the ball is inbounded or not?
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 06, 2006, 09:40am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 18,203
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ignats75
What about if its the inbound play to start the 2d quarter? Since its an inbounds play, does A2 have front court status before the ball is inbounded or not?
A2 (assuming that A2 is not the inbounder) has either FC or BC status before the throwin. But, the ball doesn't have that status, and there's no team control yet, and there's the "exception" for an airborne player receiving the inbounds pass ... and since I don't know exactly which play you're talking about, I can't give a correct ruling.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 06, 2006, 09:55am
Nu1 Nu1 is offline
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 132
Throw-in question

I believe this was discussed on a recent thread. If so, could someone kindly post the link...or recap this for me. (Yes, you could post it rudely also.)

On a throw-in, A1 is out of bounds and throws to A2 who is airborne having jumped from the front court. While airborne, A2 passes the ball to A3 who is in the backcourt.
Violation NFHS?
Violation NCAA?
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 06, 2006, 10:57am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 18,203
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nu1
I believe this was discussed on a recent thread. If so, could someone kindly post the link...or recap this for me. (Yes, you could post it rudely also.)

On a throw-in, A1 is out of bounds and throws to A2 who is airborne having jumped from the front court. While airborne, A2 passes the ball to A3 who is in the backcourt.
Violation NFHS?
Violation NCAA?
NFHS: Violation
NCAA: Legal (so I've been told, and I accept, but I have a hard time "proving" it in the book)
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 06, 2006, 11:11am
Nu1 Nu1 is offline
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 132
Thanks Bob.

I've been told / read the same for NCAA, but I can't figure it out myself. Rule 9-12.8 says on a throw-in or jump ball an airborne player who secures control of the ball in the front court shall not be permitted to cause the ball to go into the back court. The only exception listed is the defensive player going airborne...intercepting a pass...and landing in the back court. (Of course 9-12.7 says an offensive player can secure and land in the back court off of a throw-in or jump ball.)

But I can't see how the scenario of A1 out of bounds...throwing it in to airborne A2 (from the front court)...who throws it to A3 in the back court is legal.
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 07, 2006, 08:51am
Lighten up, Francis.
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,700
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nu1
On a throw-in, A1 is out of bounds and throws to A2 who is airborne having jumped from the front court. While airborne, A2 passes the ball to A3 who is in the backcourt.

Violation NCAA?
NCAA: Legal (so I've been told, and I accept, but I have a hard time "proving" it in the book)
Why would this be legal under NCAA rules? If anything, it's harder to support as being legal because team control exists during the throw-in (unlike NFHS).
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 06, 2006, 05:50pm
(Something hilarious)
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: These United States
Posts: 1,162
Slight change - new ruling?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nu1
On a throw-in, A1 is out of bounds and throws to A2 who is airborne having jumped from the front court. While airborne, A2 passes the ball to A3 who is in the backcourt. Violation NFHS?
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins
NFHS: Violation
A1 inbounds to A2 who is in the air, last having touched the frontcourt, but instead of catching and throwing to A3 (A3 is in the backcourt) before touching the backcourt, bats or tips (without catching or palming) to A3 in the backcourt. Still a violation?

(I think I know the answer...)
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 06, 2006, 06:04pm
Adam's Avatar
Keeper of the HAMMER
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: MST
Posts: 27,190
Quote:
Originally Posted by HawkeyeCubP
A1 inbounds to A2 who is in the air, last having touched the frontcourt, but instead of catching and throwing to A3 (A3 is in the backcourt) before touching the backcourt, bats or tips (without catching or palming) to A3 in the backcourt. Still a violation?

(I think I know the answer...)
Yes, this is a violation.
__________________
Sprinkles are for winners.
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 06, 2006, 07:24pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 14,616
Quote:
Originally Posted by HawkeyeCubP
A1 inbounds to A2 who is in the air, last having touched the frontcourt, but instead of catching and throwing to A3 (A3 is in the backcourt) before touching the backcourt, bats or tips (without catching or palming) to A3 in the backcourt. Still a violation?

(I think I know the answer...)
No, it's not. No team control is established.
__________________
"...as cool as the other side of the pillow." - Stuart Scott

"You should never be proud of doing the right thing." - Dean Smith
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 06, 2006, 11:37pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 15,015
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nu1
I believe this was discussed on a recent thread. If so, could someone kindly post the link...or recap this for me. (Yes, you could post it rudely also.)

On a throw-in, A1 is out of bounds and throws to A2 who is airborne having jumped from the front court. While airborne, A2 passes the ball to A3 who is in the backcourt.
Violation NFHS?
Violation NCAA?
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins
NFHS: Violation
NCAA: Legal (so I've been told, and I accept, but I have a hard time "proving" it in the book)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nu1
Thanks Bob.

I've been told / read the same for NCAA, but I can't figure it out myself. Rule 9-12.8 says on a throw-in or jump ball an airborne player who secures control of the ball in the front court shall not be permitted to cause the ball to go into the back court. The only exception listed is the defensive player going airborne...intercepting a pass...and landing in the back court. (Of course 9-12.7 says an offensive player can secure and land in the back court off of a throw-in or jump ball.)

But I can't see how the scenario of A1 out of bounds...throwing it in to airborne A2 (from the front court)...who throws it to A3 in the back court is legal.
We agree that this is a violation in NFHS.
For NCAA, I happen to believe from reading the rules myself that it is also a violation, however, on page 23 of the November issue of Referee Magazine there is an article written by associate editor Ken Koester entitled "Accepting the Backcourt Exceptions." In this article he includes, "Play 1: A3, standing in the frontcourt, jumps into the air and (a) secures possession of a jump ball, or (b) receives a throw-in from A2. A3, still airborne, passes the ball to A4 in the backcourt, who catches the ball there. Ruling 1: In NFHS, backcourt violation in both cases. In NCAA, legal plays."
In addition to that he writes it is NOT a violation in NCAA men's and women's games when a team B player jumps from the frontcourt and gains possession of a ball that had not been in team B's control and then (while still airborne) passes to a teammate in the backcourt. He provides the following rule citations: 4-28, 9-11-1 A.R. 21, 9-11-6.
For anyone who tries to look those up, good luck, as you will find that 9-11 is "Shot Clock" and 9-12 is "Ball in Back Court," but even assuming he meant 12 instead of 11 (or that it was 11 in an older version of the NCAA rules, which I believe it was) his A.R. reference doesn't make sense.

I could not find his officiating bio either in the magazine or on the website, so I don't know if he is a current D1 ref or not.

Personally, I think that he is incorrect due to the following NCAA rules:


9-12-8.
A player who is the first to secure control of the ball in the front court after a jump ball or a throw-in while both feet are off the playing court shall not be permitted to cause the ball to go into the back court, except as permitted in Rule 9-12.6.



9-12-6.
A defensive player shall be permitted to secure control of the ball while both feet are off the playing court and land with one or both feet in the back court.


9-12-6 says nothing about being allowed to make a pass to a teammate in the backcourt.


Perhaps he is correct and I am not. I have made mistakes before. Maybe someone will go to the RM website and email him about this.


Quote:
Originally Posted by HawkeyeCubP
A1 inbounds to A2 who is in the air, last having touched the frontcourt, but instead of catching and throwing to A3 (A3 is in the backcourt) before touching the backcourt, bats or tips (without catching or palming) to A3 in the backcourt. Still a violation?

(I think I know the answer...)

NCAA 9-12-5.
During a throw-in when the ball is located out of bounds and adjacent to either a front-court or back-court boundary line, an inbounds player in the front court who is not in control of the ball may cause the ball to go into the back court.

Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 07, 2006, 01:17pm
(Something hilarious)
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: These United States
Posts: 1,162
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref
NCAA 9-12-5.
During a throw-in when the ball is located out of bounds and adjacent to either a front-court or back-court boundary line, an inbounds player in the front court who is not in control of the ball may cause the ball to go into the back court.

What's your NFHS ruling, Nevada? Do you agree that this batting equates passing, which equates team control, which results in a violation?
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 06, 2006, 12:23pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Irving, Texas
Posts: 675
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ignats75
What about if its the inbound play to start the 2d quarter? Since its an inbounds play, does A2 have front court status before the ball is inbounded or not?
I think FC/BC status does not matter on throw-in. (The in-bounds play devised by the coach has little to do with the sitch.) The concern would be whether the throw-in has ended. If throw-in has ended, the BC/FC status matters, unless on defense.

(Which is what was posted previously, but I hadn't yet read)


edited for grammar and hasty typing.
__________________
- SamIAm (Senior Registered User) - (Concerning all judgement calls - they depend on age, ability, and severity)

Last edited by SamIAm; Wed Dec 06, 2006 at 12:28pm.
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 06, 2006, 06:04pm
Adam's Avatar
Keeper of the HAMMER
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: MST
Posts: 27,190
Quote:
Originally Posted by SamIAm
I think FC/BC status does not matter on throw-in. (The in-bounds play devised by the coach has little to do with the sitch.) The concern would be whether the throw-in has ended. If throw-in has ended, the BC/FC status matters, unless on defense.

(Which is what was posted previously, but I hadn't yet read)


edited for grammar and hasty typing.
Don't forget that player/team control needs to get established also.
__________________
Sprinkles are for winners.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Backcourt Violation? New2AZref Basketball 14 Mon May 01, 2006 10:51pm
Backcourt violation? vawils Basketball 4 Mon Dec 12, 2005 09:23am
Backcourt Violation BroD Basketball 15 Mon Mar 15, 2004 10:51am
Backcourt violation? mrt1963 Basketball 7 Mon Dec 08, 2003 04:53pm
Backcourt Violation? Sleeper Basketball 10 Mon Dec 09, 2002 04:06pm


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:12am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1