a rough night

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

Don't put words in my mouth. I'll just barf them back out at you.

Sorry you're not feeling good, Scrapp-o. But save that barf for your game, you might need to puke on a coach's shoes. Flinging it at Dan seems like such a waste!

[refnjoe]

Thanks for all the comments/suggestions. I certainly learned a lot from that game, and know that I will handle it differently if a similar situation arises in the future. One of my assigning secretaries advised me that, generally speaking, the calling official has the right to overrule, so it would have been acceptable for me to do as some suggested and line A up to shoot the 1-and-1.

I also know that I need to work on better communication with my partners.

I also know that these forums are helping to make me a better official!!

[Ref_ Fred]

refnjoe, To your comment. I agree you have a pool of very talented officials on the web. As a new official, and I say this very carefully where some may not agree with me. I'm not saying you don't want to report it to your assignor. Keep the politics always in the back of your mind and how it works in your association. Get some feedback from someone you know better than your partner and see how this works. i just get nervous about that. You may be pulling the trigger on not getting anymore varsity games.. Just IMO!

[JRutledge]

Find a mentor and talk to them about these situations first before you go reporting it to an assignor. Reporting something to the assignor should be your last resort. A mentor should be able to talk to you about who this official is and why they are working with you in this game. If you are a rookie, that must mean you are not working a very high level game. You are also talking about a 4 year guy. He is not that much more experienced than you are.

You need to always ask yourself when you work games with any partner, "Why are they working with me?" You can ask this question at any time and at any level. Sometimes they are there to save your behind from making mistakes to they are working the level you are at because they are not that good. This might help give you confidence when you know a rule is being kicked to take charge. You should have taken charge in this situation, but you had to go through this to realize this in the end.

Peace

[refnjoe]

Thanks JRut & Fred, I appreciate those thoughts.

I do have a couple friends that I know in my other professional life- one has been in my association for 10 years, and the other for about 5. I did run it by the 10-year vet and he gave me guidance on how I should approach the issue and who I should talk to. The advice that I got is that they would want me to say something.

Without getting into the details, I didn't take it to THE assigning secretary, but spoke to an assistant and a JV rep.

I also made it clear that I wasn't complaining. Rather, I asked them about the association's expectations of me and refrained from mentioning the day of the game, team names, or my partner's name.

Based on the response I got, it seemed that the advice I received was sound and I'm glad I spoke to them.

[Old School]

I'm not so sure I agree with everyone's thought pattern here. Pretty much everyone is saying stand your ground with a senior official. Go line up the players and shoot the 1 - 1 against your senior partners ruling. This does not sound like a verry wise thing to do, especially if you are a rookie. Not to mention, you don't want to stand out there arguing with your partner about a call. This makes both of you look stupid. Make a decision and move on. If you are not the R for the game, stand down and let the R make the decision. If it's the wrong thing to do, it is on the R and it will come back to him.

Since we do not know the R side of the story. I'm going to withhold judgement. However, I will say this, challenging a more senior partner could be detrimental to your career. Don't ever think it's okay to show up your partner like you have been advised to do here. That's like showing up your dad. Yea, you are right but..... If you are not the person responsible to make the decision, then yeild to that person. One day you will be that person and you will be the wisher.

The next thing you need to do in my opinion is call the person that assigned you the game. Get their advise about the play in question so that you can learn and let the assigner get back to the Referee of the game. If the R did something wrong, the assigner will get back to him. By doing this, you cover your bases.

Peace

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by Old School

If you are not the person responsible to make the decision, then yeild to that person.

The problem is, you are the person responsible here. You're the calling official.

[26 Year Gap]

Originally Posted by Old School

I'm not so sure I agree with everyone's thought pattern here. Pretty much everyone is saying stand your ground with a senior official. Go line up the players and shoot the 1 - 1 against your senior partners ruling. This does not sound like a verry wise thing to do, especially if you are a rookie. Not to mention, you don't want to stand out there arguing with your partner about a call. This makes both of you look stupid. Make a decision and move on. If you are not the R for the game, stand down and let the R make the decision. If it's the wrong thing to do, it is on the R and it will come back to him.

Since we do not know the R side of the story. I'm going to withhold judgement. However, I will say this, challenging a more senior partner could be detrimental to your career. Don't ever think it's okay to show up your partner like you have been advised to do here. That's like showing up your dad. Yea, you are right but..... If you are not the person responsible to make the decision, then yeild to that person. One day you will be that person and you will be the wisher.

The next thing you need to do in my opinion is call the person that assigned you the game. Get their advise about the play in question so that you can learn and let the assigner get back to the Referee of the game. If the R did something wrong, the assigner will get back to him. By doing this, you cover your bases.

Peace

I certainly hope that you are not mentoring people in your association. Should someone step in and change the other guy's calls because he is more senior even though the changed call is wrong? That is what you imply here.
btw, do you know anyone named JMO?

[refnjoe]

Originally Posted by Old School

This makes both of you look stupid. Make a decision and move on. If you are not the R for the game, stand down and let the R make the decision. If it's the wrong thing to do, it is on the R and it will come back to him.

Originally Posted by Old School

challenging a more senior partner could be detrimental to your career. Don't ever think it's okay to show up your partner like you have been advised to do here.

Originally Posted by Old School

The next thing you need to do in my opinion is call the person that assigned you the game.

My post just before this one states that I did check in with not one, but THREE senior officials. One is a mentor. One is the JV rep on our exec board, and the other is the Asst. Signing Secretary who is my point of contact regarding assignments.

Their unanimous advice is the opposite of yours. As the calling official, it is my responsibility to administer the penalty. This wasn't a judgment call or an error in foul count for the bonus, etc. as you had suggested earlier, this was KICKING A RULE. They all said I should have lined up the shooter and shot the one and one.

I was advised that if an evaluator had been present, or a coach complained about this incident, the R would have been suspended, and chances are I would have been as well.

The best advice they gave me was to be confident enough to be sure of what I KNOW, and to admit when I don't know. That way, I know when to be firm and when to let experience prevail.