Foul then Buzzer then shot - Interesting brand new ruling

[Camron Rust]

Just to play the devil's advocate a bit...

A few plays (that I made up) with rulings based on Jurrassic's views (as I understand them)...

With A down by 3 and the shot in the plays is for 2 points...

Play: A1 starts a shot, is fouled, whistle is blown, ref sees 0.3 seconds on the clock and the clock stops at 0.3, A1 then releases the shot (more than 0.3 seconds later), the shot goes in. Ruling: count the basket, shoot 1 FT.

Play: A1 starts a shot, is fouled, whistle is blown, ref sees 0.3 seconds on the clock but clock runs out, horn sounds, A1 then releases the shot, the shot goes in. Ruling: put 0.3 second on the clock, count the basket, shoot 1 FT.

Play: A1 starts a shot, is fouled, whistle is blown, ref can't see the clock (or doesn't look at the clock) and it runs out, horn sounds, A1 then releases the shot, the shot goes in. Ruling: put no time on the clock, don't count the basket, no FT's, A loses.


In this last case, the ref KNOWS that the whistle clearly preceeded the horn, that the clock should have stopped with time left, that the shot would be during a live ball if the clock had been properly stopped, that team A should be on the line with a chance to tie the game. The only difference may be that the ref was at an angle to the clock where he/she couldn't see the exact time of the whistle....but it was clearly before the horn. Why should the shot depend in seeing the clock? I could see the argument for not putting time back up (but even that is debateable...I have a count in my head in all endgame situations just for that occurance that I'll use even if I can't see the clock), but waiving off the shot too??

[Mark Dexter]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Just to play the devil's advocate a bit...

A few plays (that I made up) with rulings based on Jurrassic's views (as I understand them)...

With A down by 3 and the shot in the plays is for 2 points...

Play: A1 starts a shot, is fouled, whistle is blown, ref sees 0.3 seconds on the clock and the clock stops at 0.3, A1 then releases the shot (more than 0.3 seconds later), the shot goes in. Ruling: count the basket, shoot 1 FT.

Play: A1 starts a shot, is fouled, whistle is blown, ref sees 0.3 seconds on the clock but clock runs out, horn sounds, A1 then releases the shot, the shot goes in. Ruling: put 0.3 second on the clock, count the basket, shoot 1 FT.

Play: A1 starts a shot, is fouled, whistle is blown, ref can't see the clock (or doesn't look at the clock) and it runs out, horn sounds, A1 then releases the shot, the shot goes in. Ruling: put no time on the clock, don't count the basket, no FT's, A loses.

I have to disagree with play #2. If I get that situation, I'm cancelling the basket, putting 0.3 on the clock, then having A1 shoot 2 free-throws. Coach won't like it, but that's what's written in the rulebook, by my interpretation.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Mark Dexter

I have to disagree with play #2. If I get that situation, I'm cancelling the basket, putting 0.3 on the clock, then having A1 shoot 2 free-throws. Coach won't like it, but that's what's written in the rulebook, by my interpretation.

Why? If you're putting time on the clock, time didn't really expire. It was just a random horn.

If that were true, the home team should always let the clock run at the end of the game when the visiting team is trying to tie the game or take the lead on a last second shot.

[Mark Dexter]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Why? If you're putting time on the clock, time didn't really expire. It was just a random horn.

If that were true, the home team should always let the clock run at the end of the game when the visiting team is trying to tie the game or take the lead on a last second shot.

Time did expire, though. Ideally, it wouldn't have, but it did. This is not analagous to the scorer buzzing the horn with 6:15 to go because of an illegal substitution.

[biz]

Originally Posted by Mark Dexter

I have to disagree with play #2. If I get that situation, I'm cancelling the basket, putting 0.3 on the clock, then having A1 shoot 2 free-throws. Coach won't like it, but that's what's written in the rulebook, by my interpretation.

I'm confused Mark. If you have definite knowledge that there was .3 seconds remaining in the game when the foul occurred why then are you cancelling the basket?

5-10 seems to say that the quarter has not ended if you have definite knowledge of the time remaining therefore you can count the goal, award the free throw and finish the game.

[Mark Dexter]

Originally Posted by biz

I'm confused Mark. If you have definite knowledge that there was .3 seconds remaining in the game when the foul occurred why then are you cancelling the basket?

5-10 seems to say that the quarter has not ended if you have definite knowledge of the time remaining therefore you can count the goal, award the free throw and finish the game.

The horn sounding made the ball dead.

[biz]

but by putting time back on the clock we're saying the horn sounding is a timer error aren't we?

[Mark Dexter]

Originally Posted by biz

but by putting time back on the clock we're saying the horn sounding is a timer error aren't we?

I don't think so. The exception I referenced before (5-6-2 Exception 3) is pretty clear that the timer is not expected to be perfect in this situation.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Mark Dexter

I don't think so. The exception I referenced before (5-6-2 Exception 3) is pretty clear that the timer is not expected to be perfect in this situation.

I disagree. The timer may not be expected to be perfect, but if we're correcting the timer error, we need to let that bucket stand.