OB situation

[sj]

Ball is going out of bounds after being last touched by A1. A2 is running towards the sideline and has a good chance of saving it. But then bench sitter B6 gets up off his rear and definitively reaches out and grabs the ball as it is crossing over the OB line.

Ruling?

[Adam]

T on B6. He made it easy by standing up. Don't forget to give the coach two things; his indirect technical foul and his seatbelt.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

T on B6. He made it easy by standing up. Don't forget to give the coach two things; his indirect technical foul and his seatbelt.

Yup. This is a T. It's a judgment call by the official. If there is even a remote chance that A2 can make a bonafied play on the ball, T on B6. Otherwise, dismiss it as a nice try by A2, and move on with a B throw-in.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by sj

Ball is going out of bounds after being last touched by A1. A2 is running towards the sideline and has a good chance of saving it. But then the head coach of team B gets up off his rear and definitively reaches out and grabs the ball as it is just over the OOB line.

Ruling?

Changed it to the head coach.....

Yo, Jimgolf......

Is this an OOB violation by A1 also, similar to the logic used by you in the other thread? Team B's ball?

[sj]

I agree with the T. I guess it would be base on entering the court without permission....10-4-2... Or would you say it's a T coming under the, "This includes, but is not limited to, acts or conduct" rule in 10-4-1...

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Rule Book

10-4-4 Bench personnel shall not...Stand in the team bench area while the clock is running or is stopped, and must remain seated, except...

Grabbing a ball does not get listed as one of the approved exceptions. Like I said, B6 makes it easy by getting off the bench to do it.
If it's the head coach, you need to make sure it was deliberate, otherwise you just have OOB on A, B's ball.

[Jimgolf]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Changed it to the head coach.....

Yo, Jimgolf......

Is this an OOB violation by A1 also, similar to the logic used by you in the other thread? Team B's ball?

The difference is whether this is inadvertant or deliberate, in this case it is established that the touch was deliberate.

There is no need to worry about whether the player was standing or not, this is blatant unsportsmanlike conduct.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Jimgolf

The difference is whether this is inadvertant or deliberate, in this case it is established that the touch was deliberate.

There is no need to worry about whether the player was standing or not, this is blatant unsportsmanlike conduct.

I didn't say anything about a player standing. I asked what you would do if the head coach touched the ball while the head coach was legally standing in his coaching box. In the other thread, you said that you would give the other team the ball under similar circumstances(fan instead of coach). Would you do the same here? And if not, please cite a rule why you wouldn't.

[Jimgolf]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

I didn't say anything about a player standing. I asked what you would do if the head coach touched the ball while the head coach was legally standing in his coaching box. In the other thread, you said that you would give the other team the ball under similar circumstances(fan instead of coach). Would you do the same here? And if not, please cite a rule why you wouldn't.

You're saying the coach deliberately reaches out and touches the ball? This is unsporting conduct and 2-8-1 applies. If you mean the ball inadvertantly touches the coach, then it is out of bounds off of A1. Even if it's his own coach or fan or cheerleader or mascot or mother.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Jimgolf

You're saying the coach deliberately reaches out and touches the ball? This is unsporting conduct and 2-8-1 applies. If you mean the ball inadvertantly touches the coach, then it is out of bounds off of A1. Even if it's his own coach or fan or cheerleader or mascot or mother.

Well, that doesn't surprise me. You'd give it to the other team even though the ball could have been saved if the coach wasn't in the way. At least, you're consistent.

We still disagree.

In the other thread, why would you give it to the other team instead of calling a technical foul on the fan for being on the floor and interfering with the play, deliberately or not? Doesn't rule 2-8-1 that you cited above specifically refer to a "team follower" also?

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Well, that doesn't surprise me. You'd give it to the other team even though the ball could have been saved if the coach wasn't in the way. At least, you're consistent.

We still disagree.

In the other thread, why would you give it to the other team instead of calling a technical foul on the fan for being on the floor and interfering with the play, deliberately or not? Doesn't rule 2-8-1 that you cited above specifically refer to a "team follower" also?

What else would you do if the ball accidentally hits a coach who is standing where he's supposed to?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser

What else would you do if the ball accidentally hits a coach who is standing where he's supposed to?

If a player has a good chance to save the ball, and the coach is right on the sideline and makes absolutely no effort to get out of the way and ends up interfering with that play, I'm giving the ball back to the other team. I'll use 2-3. If it's his team however, then he deserves to loose the ball for getting in the way. I'll guarantee you though that the coach is gona be a-ducking'n'weaving if it's his player trying to save the ball. And if the ball is on the in-bounds side of the line when it hits the coach, he's getting a "T"- even if his feet are completely OOB.

That's what I'd do. Mileage may vary.

Now, Rich, where do you stand on the ball hitting a fan standing partially on the court while a player was dribbling it in-bounds? Would you give it to the other team too?

[IREFU2]

Originally Posted by sj

Ball is going out of bounds after being last touched by A1. A2 is running towards the sideline and has a good chance of saving it. But then bench sitter B6 gets up off his rear and definitively reaches out and grabs the ball as it is crossing over the OB line.

Ruling?

Give the ball back to Team A and let the coach know that in your opinion, A2 had a change to get the ball. I probably wouldnt T up anyone. But, all judgement and if I was there on the floor, then I may have done otherwise.

[Jimgolf]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

In the other thread, why would you give it to the other team instead of calling a technical foul on the fan for being on the floor and interfering with the play, deliberately or not? Doesn't rule 2-8-1 that you cited above specifically refer to a "team follower" also?

I'm envisioning a fan walking back to his seat, carrying a couple of hot dogs and some popcorn with his back to the action, maybe waiting for an aisle to clear so he can get back to his seat. How is this an unsporting act?

As a frame of reference, the IS8 tournament in Jamaica, NY is held in a junior high school gym, and for the HS level games the sidelines are extended toward the stands to permit 3 point shooting. The playing court extends to within 6 inches of the stands, and fans are not permitted to sit in the front row (the stands are not movable). However, it is impossible to walk to the stands without having at least one foot in the playing area.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Jimgolf

I'm envisioning a fan walking back to his seat, carrying a couple of hot dogs and some popcorn with his back to the action, maybe waiting for an aisle to clear so he can get back to his seat. How is this an unsporting act?

I never said it was. That's why I never, ever dreamed of giving a technical foul to a fan either. I wouldn't in either case. It doesn't matter whether the act was inadvertant or deliberate anyway imo. I'm giving the ball back to the team that was dribbling the ball in both cases because the ball wouldn't have gone OOB in either if the fan wasn't where he wasn't supposed to be.

We're beating a dead horse now, Jim. Neither of us is gonna change their mind. We just disagree, is all.