Call it or not??

[Junker]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Good point.That comes with experience sometimes....when to call something like this.

I agree with this. If it's getting a little physical it might be a good one to take, but I'd rather get something else like a push on the block or during a rebound.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Junker

I agree with this. If it's getting a little physical it might be a good one to take, but I'd rather get something else like a push on the block or during a rebound.

And that falls under the category of "whatever works", as long as it does work. Can't knock the end result imo.

[IREFU2]

All I am saying is that a slap on the arm (overlooked for whatever reason) could end up being a problem on the other end of the floor. In some cases, preventive officiating is actually calling those types of fouls, especially with these kids today and their quick tempers

[Junker]

I agree, it could become a problem, but in a lot of leagues, the players and coaches know they have to play through that kind of contact.

[Ref in PA]

Who is to say the slap on the arm did not create an advantage?

Consider this. B1 gets the rebound, and has the ball protected. Players from both teams begin moving up court. B1 will now start to look for the outlet pass. A1 comes from behind, takes a swipe at the ball, gets all arm, and moves up court. B1 now hesitates because of the contact, takes an extra pivot to make sure he is clear. The swipe by A1 allowed team A to get back on defense, perhaps stopping a cherry picker lay up. In my mind, an advantage was gained by team A to be able to set up on defense. A lot of ground can be made up on a basketball court in a 1/2 second. Was the ball knocked loose? No. Was possession lost? No. But there are other advantages that can be gained. Just something to think about.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Ref in PA

Who is to say the slap on the arm did not create an advantage?

Consider this. B1 gets the rebound, and has the ball protected. Players from both teams begin moving up court. B1 will now start to look for the outlet pass. A1 comes from behind, takes a swipe at the ball, gets all arm, and moves up court. B1 now hesitates because of the contact, takes an extra pivot to make sure he is clear. The swipe by A1 allowed team A to get back on defense, perhaps stopping a cherry picker lay up. In my mind, an advantage was gained by team A to be able to set up on defense. A lot of ground can be made up on a basketball court in a 1/2 second. Was the ball knocked loose? No. Was possession lost? No. But there are other advantages that can be gained. Just something to think about.

Yup, and if you judge there is an advantage (it only needs to be clear to you), then call it. I'm not saying this can't be a foul; only that as written in the OP, it might not be.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Ref in PA

Who is to say the slap on the arm did not create an advantage?

The official with the responsibility to make the call, same as always.

[blindzebra]

There can be many different philosophies put into play in this situation.

If the game was physical and getting more so, you might want to call a loud slap like that, to keep things from escalating.

If it's loud and out in the open, this might just fall under the good old call the obvious.

Not that I agree, but if there is one of those 7-1/10-2 team foul counts going, and that slap was by the team with 1 or 2 you might go get it.

Lower levels, I'm more likely to get it than varsity or above.

[JRutledge]

Foul calls are clearly judgment calls. No one here can tell if this call was a good or bad call by reading something on a discussion board. In my opinion if the "slap" did not make the player lose the ball, knock them off balance, affect what they would have normally been able to do or was not an attempt to foul the player near the end of the game, I would likely pass on this. Touching someone is not a foul. And what is considered a "slap" is also a judgment call. Even for me at the JH level I would likely pass on this, but kids at this level cannot handle a lot of contact either. This is after all why we get paid the big bucks and why some officials are deemed JH officials and others move up the ranks. All we are doing here is giving our opinions. You have to decide what works for you in the end.

Peace

[emtp]

You might want to examine why the game got to the point of being physical and feeling the need to call this foul if no advantage was gained by the defense

[Old School]

Here's the deal. It's already been mention. If you choose to let this foul go, guaranteed, late in the game. Watch the player who just got foul. On the way up the court, he/she retaliates. Now, you blast the retaliation. That's not right, either. I agree that it doesn't need to be called every single time you see it. But when it's loud like that, and the intensity has risen in the game, something you need to be aware of, nobody going to complain about you blasting that one.

I do want to mention something about the look on the coaches face. You indicated that his resentment made you feel uncomfortable. You better get use to that because it's going to happen I lot more in your career. Best to not even look at the coach. Focus on the table, report your foul and take the ball back out. The only thing you need to look at the coach for is timeouts and if they have a question.

I had one coach who I had given an Tech for complaining too much earlier in the game, really gave me a dirty look after a quick steal by his team in a very close playoff game. I blew a double dribble on his player who had a open layup to take the lead. He looked at me as if I totally blew the call. At this particular point in the game, I doubted myself because of his look. The reason I'm mentioning this is because this is the coaches job to try and get into your head. If successful, they will have you second guessing yourself. After the game, I asked the person at the table if they saw the call I made. They said, yes they did and it was the right call, hell yea, he double dribble. So I learned not to even look at the coach after I make a call. I mean his look was such that I could have gave him another technical for staring me down.

Don't shoot the messenger....

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by Old School

I mean his look was such that I could have gave him another technical for staring me down..

Really, Chuck, I'm surprised you can even type this. Could have gave?? Now that's too awful for words!!