Dorky coach

[bigdogrunnin]

I agree with many of the other posters . . . you baited the coach with your approach and your choice of words. Don't challenge a coach, THEY will always lose that battle and YOU as an official set them up for it . . . HOOK, LINE, and SINKER! You have the ability to handle this situation in many ways, but your approach was not one I would recommend.

Also, don't give coaches ultimatums. Warn them in a professional courteous manner. Give them the stop sign, and let them know that they have been warned, and tell your co-officials immediately that you have warned the coach. If they don't comply, then they should be assessed a direct technical foul for unsporting conduct.

Based on the information you gave, I could see my conversation going something like this:

Coach: "That's a reach! That's a reach!"
Me: "There wasn't any contact coach."
Coach: "Ref, you have to call that."
Me: "Coach, if there isn't any contact, there is nothing I can call."
Coach: "That's a reach. It's illegal."
Me: "Coach, tell me what you saw . . ."
Coach: "I saw the kid reach across his body."
Me: "Coach, as long as the defensive player doesn't create contact, they are not prohibited from reaching across the offensive player's body."
Coach: "So even though he is reaching across my player's body, it is not a foul?"
Me: "Correct, Coach. As long as there is no contact."

And then I am out of there. Of course, that conversation would take place during a T/O or maybe a free throw situation. Otherwise, I do what JR said, "Thank you Coach, we'll look for that."

As for the 30-seconds issue . . . what did your NOT giving the coach his full 30 seconds achieve? Did getting the girl in 10 seconds sooner really accomplish anything? You also said you went over to your partner, which means you had to go across the floor to do so. How much time did that take? Who was watching the other players while you AND your partner were watching the ONE girl getting ready to sub in?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by bigdogrunnin

As for the 30-seconds issue . . . what did your NOT giving the coach his full 30 seconds achieve?

Well, it achieved not giving a coach a free 30-second TO that he's not entitled to have.

The 30-second substitution period is not a time-out, nor was it ever meant to be one. The rules allow a coach 30 seconds or less to make a substitution. Once the substitute has legally entered the game, the substitution period is over.

In this case, I really don't think that it's fair to criticize an official for knowing a rule and how the rule should be applied. The coach should know the rule; if he didn't before, he sureasheck should know it now.

Btw, this was a major POE three years ago. From that POE:
"When the required substitute has reported to the table, the 30-second interval has ended and play shall resume immediately. Therefore, if the substitute reports to the table just after the disqualifying foul is called or reported, there is no 30-second interval necessary or permitted. If the required substitute reports within a few seconds of the 30-seconds permitted, play shall resume immediately".

That's pretty explicit instructions from the FED on how they want this play administered. Locally, we train our officials to all follow that procedure.

[bigdogrunnin]

JR, you are correct as to the exact enforcement of the rule, and I do agree with you. However, when looking at the context of this situation, and knowing this official and coach were already "at odds" with one another, does it make sense to further press on (especially in game that was a blow out)? I am thinking strictly in the sense of game management (I know, a whole new can of worms). As for the POE, I didn't remember that, but I am glad you brought it to my attention, as I will have to do a better job of enforcing this.

Additionally, the questions I posed are still valid points for consideration:

Did getting the girl in 10 seconds sooner really accomplish anything(other than saving 10 seconds of game time)? You also said you went over to your partner, which means you had to go across the floor to do so (if you were in proper position to begin with). How much time did that take? Who was watching the other players while you AND your partner were watching the ONE girl getting ready to sub in?

As for the coach, he seems to only one of MANY these days, who DO NOT know the rules nearly as well as they would like to believe.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by bigdogrunnin

JR, you are correct as to the exact enforcement of the rule, and I do agree with you. However, when looking at the context of this situation, and knowing this official and coach were already "at odds" with one another, does it make sense to further press on (especially in game that was a blow out)? I am thinking strictly in the sense of game management (I know, a whole new can of worms).

I don't think "game management" means that you should avoid a confrontation that is being initiated by the coach. Yes, there were better ways to maybe handle things before this point, but that still doesn't change the fact that you should try to consistently apply the rules anyway. It's not really a case of "I'm gonna try to piss off the coach". It's more of a case of "This is the way we handle ALL disqualifications/substitution situations". Personally, I'd rather see consistency out there, and let the chips fall where they may. There's some coaches that you just ain't gonna please no matter what you do, and this particular coach sounds to me like one of that breed. If he didn't get mad at not getting his 30-second TO, then he'd just find something else. Somewhere along the line he's got to get the message that enough is enough (and too much is plenty ).

JMO as always.

[mick]

Originally Posted by bigdogrunnin

Additionally, the questions I posed are still valid points for consideration:

Did getting the girl in 10 seconds sooner really accomplish anything(other than saving 10 seconds of game time)? You also said you went over to your partner, which means you had to go across the floor to do so (if you were in proper position to begin with). How much time did that take? Who was watching the other players while you AND your partner were watching the ONE girl getting ready to sub in?

bigdogrunnin,
Allowing one coach to meet with his players is providing only one team an unintended advantage.
mick