Illegal Player

[tjones1]

I'm pretty sure this is pretty cut/dry, but just want to make sure.

1st quarter, 4:15 remaining.

A20 is on the floor. Foul called on A15. Table calls me over and tells me A20 is not in the book.

My ruling was play on per 10.1.2. Player becomes legal when the ball is live, it's too late to penalize. A20 gets placed in the book with no penalty.

Is this correct?


Did I mention my season fully kicked off tonight? God I love this game!

[Gimlet25id]

Originally Posted by tjones1

I'm pretty sure this is pretty cut/dry, but just want to make sure.

1st quarter, 4:15 remaining.

A20 is on the floor. Foul called on A15. Table calls me over and tells me A20 is not in the book.

My ruling was play on per 10.1.2. Player becomes legal when the ball is live, it's too late to penalize. A20 gets placed in the book with no penalty.

Is this correct?

Incorrect. Rule 10-1-2b Penalty Arts.2b, c, d. Penelized when they occur

[BigJoe]

You are thinking of rule 10-2, which is a player technical. Once they are on the floor they are a player. But the T is a team technical if they aren't in the book. Review these two rules to avoid confusion.

Officiating my first scrimmage in Arizona tomorrow. Looking forward to it.

[Nevadaref]

Sorry, Tanner, you are incorrect. The name and number of the player must be added to the scorebook and a team technical foul must be charged per 10-1-2b.

Pay special attention to the penalty section of that article. It specifies when you penalize each of these five items. Only (a) needs to be caught before the ball becomes live.

PS After checking the case book play that you cited, I see why you were confused. What the case book is telling you is that you must penalize this at the time that the scorer makes the change. If you tell the scorer to make the change, but for some reason fail to assess a T right then, you can't go back and charge it after the next live ball. It is a now or never thing. The proper time to penalize is during the dead ball when the scorer bring this to your attention. That was the case in your situation, so you should have assessed the T. However, according to the case book, if the opposing coach had pointed out your error two minutes later, then by rule you have to live with it. Make sense?

[tjones1]

Hmm, I guess I'm just having a hard time swallowing the last sentence in 10.1.2

[Gimlet25id]

Originally Posted by tjones1

Hmm, I guess I'm just having a hard time swallowing the last sentence in 10.1.2

Whats the sentence?

[tjones1]

Originally Posted by Gimlet25id

Whats the sentence?

Once the ball has become live, it is too late to penalize.

Nevada,
Makes sense. But, I guess my thinking says that it was discovered when A20 checked into the scorer, if not, how did A20 get recorded into the book?

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by tjones1

Once the ball has become live, it is too late to penalize.

Nevada,
Makes sense. But, I guess my thinking says that it was discovered when A20 checked into the scorer, if not, how did A20 get recorded into the book?

It probably wasn't discovered at that time.

Team members are still required to give their number to the scorer when they report as a substitute, but most scorers are either lax on this or unaware of the requirement.
Most kids just come to the table and say nothing at all to the scorer. Those that do say something like, "I'm checking in."
If the scorer doesn't look at the book, find the name/number of the sub, and check the kid off when he enters by putting a mark in the box for the appropriate quarter to indicate that he played in that period, then it is easy to see how this gets missed until a foul is called on that player or he scores.

Of course, the discovery is not the critical element in this situation. It is the time when the name must be added to the scorebook. That is the proper time to penalize.

BTW in your initial post you wrote that the scorer told you that A20 was NOT in the book. Are you trying to confuse me now?

[tjones1]

Yeah, makes sense. Alrighty, well there goes my perfect season. Oh well, there's always next year... hmmm, where have I heard that before... M&M, can you help?!

[refnrev]

Dang, Tanner, you missed a chance to whack someone. Those don't happen all that often.