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  #46 (permalink)  
Old Fri Nov 10, 2006, 10:13pm
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Originally Posted by just another ref
After the first free throw, B1 jumped up and secured the rebound. If play had been allowed to continue, we would have been looking at a correctable error situation, whether the official had given erroneous information or not. Therefore, as I see it, the bad information given by the ref is not even important. Play was not allowed to continue. B1 grabbed the rebound, and the play was immediately whistled dead. This happens all the time. Nobody was put at a disadvantage.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref
For exactly how long? Do you believe that there is some kind of timeframe here? Did you even bother to read the Case Book play that I just posted? What you are advocating is clearly contrary to that.

What do you call B1 rebounding the ball? Isn't that play?

Players jump up and rebound the ball after the first free throw all the time. You step in, blow the whistle, say "one more," and they all go "oh, my bad."
According to what you're saying, B1 should jump up and rebound that first missed free throw again next time, because then you'll give him the ball at the end no matter what happens next.
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  #47 (permalink)  
Old Fri Nov 10, 2006, 10:27pm
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Yes, but they say my bad when the ref actually said 2 throws

And what is wrong with my grammar
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  #48 (permalink)  
Old Fri Nov 10, 2006, 11:48pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rainmaker
Gimlet, the point is, there is one proper way to handle this situation. If you don't know the way to handle it, and you do it incorrectly, that's one thing. But you are being told the correct way, and you're arguing against it. Whatever valid argument you have, it doesn't matter. The way to correct this error is prescribed and your arguments are meaningless. Whether or not coaches ever believe anything you say doesn't matter. You need to be right. And if you are told what's right, and then you don't do it, it doesn't matter what the coach thinks, because you'll be wrong. You can plan on dealing with know-nothing, over-emotional coaches for the rest of your career, because the coaches who know and who expect proper rules won't want you doing their games, unless you use proper rules. It's just that simple.
WOW!!! Man what a post!!! Felt like I was be reprimanded by my Mother.(per Neva)!!!First I wasn't saying that I was correct or that whoever was incorrect. In fact I said that I thought either way would work depending on exactly when the official blew the ball dead. Either as B was getting the ball or after he had secured it. I was writing my thoughts, and to see if there would be another way to handle this Sit. without invoking the correctable error. It was my understanding that is what is good about this open forum.

On the contrary I know how to invoke the correctable area and think that I have a fairly good understanding of the rule. The original OP listed a good question and I was writing some options for the discussion. Enough explaining.

My original thought was that a VALID argument could be made that the ball was already dead....someone asked to list a rule....here it is...Rule 6-7 Art.2"the ball becomes dead, or remains dead when," "It is apparent the free throw will not be successful on a : a. Free throw which is to be followed by another free throw..

If the table said 2 shots , the calling official said 2 shots, and if they are in the 2nd half, so the offensive teams coach hears this and is expecting 2 shots, and maybe most of the A team thats in the box thinks its 2 shots. Then all of the sudden the Admin. official verbalizes 1 & 1 and only the low block B players pick up. Shot, they move and get the rebound. My question to you, if you can maybe keep your composure is....if the table, & calling official both said 2 shots wouldn't this fall under 6-7 Art. 2a. If so, the ball is dead and we simply explain the RULE that the ball was dead because there was supposed to be 2 shots and the ball stays dead after the first throw when a second throw would follow? Just asking...surely your not against a little discussion that gets our brains thinking more in depth into the rule do you? I'm in no way shape or form saying you are wrong. Just wondering if this route would work as well. If it does then all of the players would get the same opportunity to rebound the ball.

If you had read the previous posts you would have realized my little comment about the coaches not believing us was a joke in response to the post JR left. Please don't take what I say out of context. If you really want to try and scold me or somehow lecture me please take the time to read all of my comments not just one or two.

Looking forward to your response.....I want everyone to know that I know my english and grammer both suck! Hopefully you still get the jest of what I was saying.
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Last edited by Gimlet25id; Sat Nov 11, 2006 at 12:12am.
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  #49 (permalink)  
Old Sat Nov 11, 2006, 12:09am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gimlet25id
WOW!!! Man what a post!!! Felt like I was be reprimanded by my Father!!!
Better make that mother before you really get her mad.
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  #50 (permalink)  
Old Sat Nov 11, 2006, 12:11am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref
Better make that mother before you really get her mad.
Thanks for the heads up!!!!
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  #51 (permalink)  
Old Sat Nov 11, 2006, 12:35am
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Players jump up and rebound the ball after the first free throw all the time. You step in, blow the whistle, say "one more," and they all go "oh, my bad."


Quote:
Originally Posted by lukealex
Yes, but they say my bad when the ref actually said 2 throws
Where does it say that it matters why they rebounded the first free throw when another should follow?
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  #52 (permalink)  
Old Sat Nov 11, 2006, 12:56am
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You need to use some judgment here. It should be fairly easy to tell if the players were attempting to play the game and the officials were mistaken to let them do so or if the officials knew that the ball was dead despite the actions of the players and the player who rebounded the ball was merely getting it for the official.

In the first case a correctable error has occurred and the officials are obligated to follow the NFHS rules in fixing it.
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  #53 (permalink)  
Old Sat Nov 11, 2006, 12:58am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref
You need to use some judgment here. It should be fairly easy to tell if the players were attempting to play the game and the officials were mistaken to let them do so or if the officials knew that the ball was dead despite the actions of the players and the player who rebounded the ball was merely getting it for the official.

In the first case a correctable error has occurred and the officials are obligated to follow the NFHS rules in fixing it.
Agreed. Could the ball be dead? If the table, calling official both verbalized 2 shots.
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  #54 (permalink)  
Old Sat Nov 11, 2006, 05:15am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gimlet25id
Hopefully you still get the jest of what I was saying.
Unless you were intentionally making a pun, you can add your diction too!

jest
1 : an utterance (as a jeer or quip) intended to be taken as mockery or humor
2 a : PRANK b : a ludicrous circumstance or incident
3 a : a frivolous mood or manner [spoken in jest] b : gaiety and merriment

gist
1 : the ground of a legal action
2 : the main point or part :ESSENCE [the gist of an argument]

Last edited by Nevadaref; Sat Nov 11, 2006 at 05:17am.
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  #55 (permalink)  
Old Sat Nov 11, 2006, 10:48am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref
Unless you were intentionally making a pun, you can add your diction too!

jest
1 : an utterance (as a jeer or quip) intended to be taken as mockery or humor
2 a : PRANK b : a ludicrous circumstance or incident
3 a : a frivolous mood or manner [spoken in jest] b : gaiety and merriment

gist
1 : the ground of a legal action
2 : the main point or part :ESSENCE [the gist of an argument]
No pun, just bad english.
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  #56 (permalink)  
Old Sat Nov 11, 2006, 07:15pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by just another ref
Players jump up and rebound the ball after the first free throw all the time. You step in, blow the whistle, say "one more," and they all go "oh, my bad."
According to what you're saying, B1 should jump up and rebound that first missed free throw again next time, because then you'll give him the ball at the end no matter what happens next.
Sure, individual players do this, even when they've been told "two shots." However, the ref with the responsibility for administering the shots said "one shot" (or "one and one.") He told all the players on the lane that it was a live ball on the miss, and they all played accordingly. The ref made an error, and B got the rebound. By rule, you shouldn't take this rebound away from them.
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  #57 (permalink)  
Old Sat Nov 11, 2006, 08:16pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells
Sure, individual players do this, even when they've been told "two shots." However, the ref with the responsibility for administering the shots said "one shot" (or "one and one.") He told all the players on the lane that it was a live ball on the miss, and they all played accordingly. The ref made an error, and B got the rebound. By rule, you shouldn't take this rebound away from them.

How do we know what they all did? In the original post it says B1 rebounded, nothing more.

You may have pictured a struggle for a rebound between 6 players, I pictured one guy jumping up and grabbing the ball. Either way, if play is stopped immediately, I say that's the end of it.
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  #58 (permalink)  
Old Sat Nov 11, 2006, 08:55pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by just another ref
How do we know what they all did? In the original post it says B1 rebounded, nothing more.

You may have pictured a struggle for a rebound between 6 players, I pictured one guy jumping up and grabbing the ball. Either way, if play is stopped immediately, I say that's the end of it.
They all went for the rebound.
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  #59 (permalink)  
Old Sat Nov 11, 2006, 09:28pm
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bottome line

6-7-2-a states: The ball becomes dead when it is apparent the free throw will not be successful on a free throw which is to be followed by another free throw.


This free throw was to be followed by another free throw. At least one official knew this, and handled the play correctly for that situation. No one was put at a disadvantage. No one failed to get a merited free throw.
End of story.
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  #60 (permalink)  
Old Sat Nov 11, 2006, 10:39pm
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The kicker here is the administering official said 1 and 1, which meant the rebound after the first shot was live, whether or not it should have been. Therefor, I was wrong and should have administered the second with the lane cleared
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