Lane spaces?

[ATXCoach]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

Coach, what level are you working at? Are your players not listening when you talk to them about trying to get position?

I work with girls ages 12 to 18. My players listen just fine. The problem, in my opinion, is that waiting on the ball to hit the rim on a free throw takes the fundamental out of the blocking out process.

My view from the sideline is that when you play release, the low players (defense) step towards the shooter, the offensive players one space up step to the basket. Both the offense and defense are trying to get position on there side of the floor. The third player blocks out the shooter. (As I stated before, I'm all for limiting the number of players in the lane to 5 plus the shooter - that is a good idea). So in summary, when playing the release, there is fundamentals involved.

When playing rim, when the shot comes off the rim, 6 players react to the flight of the ball, sometimes all meeting together in the middle of the lane. Futher, it's next to impossible to get to the shooter quick enough to block out legally .

I'm just a bigger fan of playing release and never once thought it to be to rough. I guess I'm of the minority opinion on that one.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by ATXCoach

My view from the sideline is that when you play release, the low players (defense) step towards the shooter, the offensive players one space up step to the basket. Both the offense and defense are trying to get position on there side of the floor. The third player blocks out the shooter.

I"m not a coach or a player, so if this sounds like a stupid question, it's only because it is! But why can't they do those things when the ball hits the rim?

[ATXCoach]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

I"m not a coach or a player, so if this sounds like a stupid question, it's only because it is! But why can't they do those things when the ball hits the rim?

One of the techniques to rebounding is forming a triangle around the rim - both sides and the front. Works better in men's ball because they play above the rim, but the concept is the same for womens. When playing the release, if all 3 defenders do their jobs correctly, the offensive players don't really have a good opportunity to get the rebound. As the players progress in experience you don't get the "over the back" (yes I know there is no such rule, but you know what i mean) calls. The work for positiong is done before the ball ever gets to the rim.

When playing rim, all six players (counting the shooter) are reacting to the bounce of the ball off the rim. Yes the first steps are the same, but position is never really established. Any rebound in the middle of the lane has the chance to have six people jumping for the rebound. It just seems to me that more players bump together than when playing the release.

I will concede that the 1 on 1 contact may be less severe, but the chance for multiple players colliding at the point of the rebound is increased when playing rim. As I think I stated, I think the change had less to due with excessive contact, and more to do with falling free throw percentages. Shooting fouls are worse for the offense than retaining possesion of the ball for a throw in in many cases these days.

So I guess to answer your question directly - they can't do the rebounding techniques when playing rim because the time to establish positioning is cut from say 2 seconds to .5 seconds.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by ATXCoach

One of the techniques to rebounding is forming a triangle around the rim - both sides and the front. Works better in men's ball because they play above the rim, but the concept is the same for womens. When playing the release, if all 3 defenders do their jobs correctly, the offensive players don't really have a good opportunity to get the rebound. As the players progress in experience you don't get the "over the back" (yes I know there is no such rule, but you know what i mean) calls. The work for positiong is done before the ball ever gets to the rim.

When playing rim, all six players (counting the shooter) are reacting to the bounce of the ball off the rim. Yes the first steps are the same, but position is never really established. Any rebound in the middle of the lane has the chance to have six people jumping for the rebound. It just seems to me that more players bump together than when playing the release.

I will concede that the 1 on 1 contact may be less severe, but the chance for multiple players colliding at the point of the rebound is increased when playing rim. As I think I stated, I think the change had less to due with excessive contact, and more to do with falling free throw percentages. Shooting fouls are worse for the offense than retaining possesion of the ball for a throw in in many cases these days.

So I guess to answer your question directly - they can't do the rebounding techniques when playing rim because the time to establish positioning is cut from say 2 seconds to .5 seconds.

I see. But couldn't you just use a different set of "positions"? I get that there's less jockeying time, but that might be to your advantage if your players are trying to get positions other than the middle of the lane, especially if the other team is headed only for the ball. But what do I know?

[ATXCoach]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

I see. But couldn't you just use a different set of "positions"? I get that there's less jockeying time, but that might be to your advantage if your players are trying to get positions other than the middle of the lane, especially if the other team is headed only for the ball. But what do I know?

I don't know if I have read your question correctly, but I'll try.

On release - you try to get and hold positioning
On rim - You still try to win the first step, but it pretty much breakdown into chasing the ball

The advantage is to the offense when playing rim instead of release. So yes it is to my advantage half the time. But the argument that less contact occurs seems to be off base from my observations from the sideline. I think it's actually the opposite.

But what do I know, according to some of the posters on this board, I'm just a dumb coach who lowers the opinions of referees about many other coaches

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by ATXCoach

I don't know if I have read your question correctly, but I'll try.

On release - you try to get and hold positioning
On rim - You still try to win the first step, but it pretty much breakdown into chasing the ball

The advantage is to the offense when playing rim instead of release. So yes it is to my advantage half the time. But the argument that less contact occurs seems to be off base from my observations from the sideline. I think it's actually the opposite.

But what do I know, according to some of the posters on this board, I'm just a dumb coach who lowers the opinions of referees about many other coaches

Well, you know more than me, that's for sure! You've got me curious now, and I"ll have to watch over my next few games, and see what I can see.