shot hits support wire

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

9.2.2 SITUATION C: A1 scores a basket. After the ball goes through the net, B1 grabs it and makes a move toward the end line as though preparing to make a throw-in. However, B1 never legally steps out of bounds, both feet remain inbounds. B1 immediately passes the ball up the court to a fast-breaking teammate, who scores a basket. RULING: Cancel Team B's goal, throw-in violation on B1. The ball was at B1's disposal after the made basket to make a throw-in. B1 must be out of bounds to make a legal throw-in. (7-4-3; 7-5-7)

So, am I reading this correctly that we are allowed to wipe off a basket and go back in time to call a violation?!?

Ok, I'm going back to sleep now. Everyone else can discuss.

Yep, I'm thinking you read it wrong. In this sitch they expect you to make the call right then, not when the coach requests it during a time-out. The violation could be called before the basket, but the red words indicate it all happened real quick.

[FrankHtown]

I guess the question is: Is there "statute of limitations" on calling a violation.

I had a situation: I'm lead, 2 person. A1 has a throw in from the corner in A's frontcourt. I administer the throw-in. A1 throws the ball, it hits the side of the backboard, and rebounds right to A1. She grabs the ball, puts up a try, and scores. I'm there saying in my mind "something's wrong...something's wrong" Team B inbounds and get a few steps up the court, when it dawns on me: A1 threw it in and was the first to touch the ball. I immediately blew the whistle and wiped the basket. Now, if the play had gotten to mid court, I don't know if I would have felt comfortable wiping the basket at that point. But since we were still in the vicinity of the play, and only a few seconds had elapsed, I felt comfortable.

So, what is the statute of limitations on calling a violation?

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by FrankHtown

I guess the question is: Is there "statute of limitations" on calling a violation.

I had a situation: I'm lead, 2 person. A1 has a throw in from the corner in A's frontcourt. I administer the throw-in. A1 throws the ball, it hits the side of the backboard, and rebounds right to A1. She grabs the ball, puts up a try, and scores. I'm there saying in my mind "something's wrong...something's wrong" Team B inbounds and get a few steps up the court, when it dawns on me: A1 threw it in and was the first to touch the ball. I immediately blew the whistle and wiped the basket. Now, if the play had gotten to mid court, I don't know if I would have felt comfortable wiping the basket at that point. But since we were still in the vicinity of the play, and only a few seconds had elapsed, I felt comfortable.

So, what is the statute of limitations on calling a violation?

I don't think there is a limit on a certain amount of time to make a call. The problem in the original post is that a call was made after time-out was called and the coach prompted the officials to do so. Now this is no longer a call to be made, but an error to be corrected.

A missed violation is not a correctable error, according to myself and several others, as vigorously stated on the last 80 or so pages on this thread.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by just another ref

I don't think there is a limit on a certain amount of time to make a call. The problem in the original post is that a call was made after time-out was called and the coach prompted the officials to do so. Now this is no longer a call to be made, but an error to be corrected.

A missed violation is not a correctable error, according to myself and several others, as vigorously stated on the last 80 or so pages on this thread.

So, what is 9.2.2 SITUATION C?

[Ref in PA]

I have followed this discussion from the beginning. I do not think you can go back and correct a missed violation.

Consider this play. A1 drives and does a jump stop in the Trail's primary area. A1 then pivots, then shoots a jump shot that is good. The Trail lets the play go. The Lead is focus on players in his primary and does not see the play. Coach B calls a time out after the made basket and wants to discuss the "violation." Trail admits a jump stop occurred and then a pivot and says it is legal. Coach B now appeals to you. Trail does not know the rule. You know the rule. Do you wipe out a basket on a play that was never whistled? I don't. I tell the coach we can discuss this play after the game if he wants, but as a crew, we live with it and take the heat.

I am still awaiting the interpretation of Mr. Jenkins.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by Ref in PA

I have followed this discussion from the beginning. I do not think you can go back and correct a missed violation.

Consider this play. A1 drives and does a jump stop in the Trail's primary area. A1 then pivots, then shoots a jump shot that is good. The Trail lets the play go. The Lead is focus on players in his primary and does not see the play. Coach B calls a time out after the made basket and wants to discuss the "violation." Trail admits a jump stop occurred and then a pivot and says it is legal. Coach B now appeals to you. Trail does not know the rule. You know the rule. Do you wipe out a basket on a play that was never whistled? I don't. I tell the coach we can discuss this play after the game if he wants, but as a crew, we live with it and take the heat.

I am still awaiting the interpretation of Mr. Jenkins.

Uhmmm...why would a jump stop followed by a pivot be a violation? That move has been around since Earl the Pearl Monroe made it poplular back in the 50's...a jumpstop does not establish a pivot foot, so they can still pivot on one of those feets of theirs without travelling...

I can NOT believe I actually added to the length of this thread!!

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

I can NOT believe I actually added to the length of this thread!!

Kinda like quicksand, isn't it? Get too close, and it sucks you right in.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

Uhmmm...why would a jump stop followed by a pivot be a violation?

What most of us refer to as a jump stop is what is described in 4-44-2-a-3 and 4-44-2-b-2.

In both of these cases, neither foot can be a pivot.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

So, what is 9.2.2 SITUATION C?

This is nothing more than calling a violation and waving off a basket, no different than saying A1 goes in for a spectacular dunk, but travels on the way up. Ruling: call the violation and wave off the basket

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by just another ref

This is nothing more than calling a violation and waving off a basket, no different than saying A1 goes in for a spectacular dunk, but travels on the way up. Ruling: call the violation and wave off the basket

Cool! You're starting to get it now!

[Jurassic Referee]

I disagree.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

Cool! You're starting to get it now!

Starting to get what? I don't get it.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by just another ref

it all happened real quick.

or real quickly or even really quick or even more impressively really quickly.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Yep, I'm thinking you read it wrong. In this sitch they expect you to make the call right then, not when the coach requests it during a time-out. The violation could be called before the basket, but the red words indicate it all happened real quick.

Well, really quickly, answer me this - does the case play suggest you are making the correction after the ball becomes dead (after the basket)? And the reason for the correction is the ball never really became "live" in the first place, due to the violation?

Of course they want us to make the call when it happens. But aren't they telling us that we can blow the whistle after another play happens (pass downcourt, catch, layup, basket), and wipe that off, because we are going back in time to call that violation?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

Well, really quickly, answer me this - does the case play suggest you are making the correction after the ball becomes dead (after the basket)? And the reason for the correction is the ball never really became "live" in the first place, due to the violation?

Of course they want us to make the call when it happens. But aren't they telling us that we can blow the whistle after another play happens (pass downcourt, catch, layup, basket), and wipe that off, because we are going back in time to call that violation?

Well technically, in 9.2.2sitC didn't the ball become live as soon as B1 had ball at his disposal (grabs ball and moves towards endline).

I don't think the focus of 9.2.2sitC is the cancelling of the basket (that info is superflous in my opinion), the focus is that throwing such a pass should be ruled a violation.

There have been officials in the past (myself included) who would have just blown the play dead and had B1 properly inbound the ball reasoning that the ball never became live so no violation occurred. Now with the clarification of "disposal after a made shot" by the FED, the scenario in 9.2.2sitC clearly is a violation and needs to be ruled as such.