The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Mon Oct 30, 2006, 07:55am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 1,105
NCAA-M - Arm Bar in the post

NCAA-M guys - arm bar in the post. Clinic I was at yesterday said the arm bar in the low post was ok until the offensive player had the ball and then it's hands (arms) off. This to me seems to be a pretty substaintial change. I understand you cant touch a point guard out front (hand check). As a player, I wanted the defender back there to lean on and that arm bar wasnt a big deal at least for me. If the defender re-routes or displaces the offensive player, sure. Extends the arm....sure.

Pretty interested how this will be called this year. Are you gonna lay a 2nd 1st half or 4th 2nd half foul on a teams best big man over an arm bar?

I'll site the rule and page (it's in there) when I get to work where the books are.

Ok....discuss
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Mon Oct 30, 2006, 08:23am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Western Mass.
Posts: 9,104
Send a message via AIM to ChuckElias
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larks
NCAA-M guys - arm bar in the post. Clinic I was at yesterday said the arm bar in the low post was ok until the offensive player had the ball and then it's hands (arms) off.
That's pretty much what I heard, too. Without the ball, one forearm on the back or side is ok if the elbow is bent. One hand on the back or side is ok if the wrist is bent. The leg on the backside is ok to hold position. If at any point in time, the arm, hand or leg is extended -- even without the ball -- it's a foul.

It seems to me that they are trying to implement "guideline fouls" like the women have adapted from the NBA. I don't think it's a bad idea. Seems like they're going for "one point of contact" without extenstion.

Once the low-post player has the ball, I think it's fair to say that the defender has to play him just like he'd play a point guard up top.
__________________
Any NCAA rules and interpretations in this post are relevant for men's games only!
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Mon Oct 30, 2006, 10:58am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 719
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larks
NCAA-M guys - arm bar in the post. Clinic I was at yesterday said the arm bar in the low post was ok until the offensive player had the ball and then it's hands (arms) off. This to me seems to be a pretty substaintial change. I understand you cant touch a point guard out front (hand check). As a player, I wanted the defender back there to lean on and that arm bar wasnt a big deal at least for me. If the defender re-routes or displaces the offensive player, sure. Extends the arm....sure.

Pretty interested how this will be called this year. Are you gonna lay a 2nd 1st half or 4th 2nd half foul on a teams best big man over an arm bar?

I'll site the rule and page (it's in there) when I get to work where the books are.

Ok....discuss
Part of the clinic/meeting was to let the officials no that we must call this from the start of the season to the end. For those who work the tournament, failure to call this and the other POE's is supposed to result in no further advancement in the tournament. Coaches & AD's have been told this, and it should have been explained in scrimmages by the officials working them. Everyone is expecting the call, if you choose not to, that is your business. Just don't expect alot of support from your assignor when they see the video.

If you don't feel like making that call, I suggest talking to the defense as soon as the ball goes to the offense. The players are supposed to adjust to these changes and should already be getting the message.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Mon Oct 30, 2006, 11:11am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Racine, Wisconsin
Posts: 1,081
It seems on the eofficials website that there has to be an advantage gained before a foul should be called.

LOW POST PLAY WITH THE BALL
Defensive Play (With the Ball)
1. Continued/constant use of forearm(s)
Advantage gained
Foul
2. Continued/constant use of hand(s)
Advantage gained
Foul
3. Use of two hands
Advantage gained
Foul
4. Intermittent Use of Forearm(s) (jabbing)
Advantage gained
Foul
5. Intermittent Use of Hand (jabbing)
Advantage gained
Foul
Note: This is consistent with the hand-checking guidelines.
__________________
Every game is a big game
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Mon Oct 30, 2006, 12:41pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Posts: 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckElias
That's pretty much what I heard, too. Without the ball, one forearm on the back or side is ok if the elbow is bent. One hand on the back or side is ok if the wrist is bent. The leg on the backside is ok to hold position. If at any point in time, the arm, hand or leg is extended -- even without the ball -- it's a foul.

It seems to me that they are trying to implement "guideline fouls" like the women have adapted from the NBA. I don't think it's a bad idea. Seems like they're going for "one point of contact" without extenstion.

Once the low-post player has the ball, I think it's fair to say that the defender has to play him just like he'd play a point guard up top.
That's right on. Were you in Atl?
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Mon Oct 30, 2006, 12:54pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Racine, Wisconsin
Posts: 1,081
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeke
That's right on. Were you in Atl?

Is this post player with his back to the basket or has the player turned and faced the hoop?
__________________
Every game is a big game
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Mon Oct 30, 2006, 01:00pm
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 29,320
The impression I got when I went to the Chicago meeting, was that we should not call a foul just because there is an arm-bar, but when it causes an advantage. So if the player using the arm is not actually pushing, then you let that go. This is all of course without the ball. Once a player gets the ball, they need to drop their arm and all the hand checking rules apply. I was never given the impressing it was "allowed" but that we should not simply call a foul in the post for touching with the forearm. I also remember similar things were said about hand checking as it related to the "measuring" aspect of a defender touching the ball handler.

Basically everything they talked about was what we did most of the time anyway. We just had those with the NCAA address it more.

Peace
__________________
Let us get into "Good Trouble."
-----------------------------------------------------------
Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Mon Oct 30, 2006, 01:24pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 719
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoodwillRef
Is this post player with his back to the basket or has the player turned and faced the hoop?
With back to basket, the arm bar can be in place as long as it is not displacing the offense, once they turn and face, it has to come off. Check the definitions of a post player and ball handler, this should help clarify.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Mon Oct 30, 2006, 01:34pm
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 29,320
Here is a link that might illustrate in better detail what the NCAA wants.

https://www.eofficials.com/ESO_Repos...THE%20BALL.pdf

Peace
__________________
Let us get into "Good Trouble."
-----------------------------------------------------------
Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Tue Oct 31, 2006, 01:11am
oc oc is offline
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 321
what about an offensive arm bar, without the ball-to maintain position?
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Tue Oct 31, 2006, 12:27pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,910
At the meetings I attended they said, like many others, that the arm bar was fine until the catch was made. Then the hands needed to be off. As far as the offensive player, it wasn't really discussed, but I think the arm is fine until it is used to push a defender away, or gain an advantage by creating space (pushing off).

Last edited by Junker; Tue Oct 31, 2006 at 12:29pm.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Why do we post at all? D-Man Baseball 33 Thu Jan 19, 2006 05:35pm
Had to post this!!!! lrpalmer3 Basketball 9 Fri Feb 25, 2005 03:53pm
First post here Mitch Neville Football 4 Tue Jan 04, 2005 12:59pm
A very sad post Mark Padgett Basketball 8 Wed Nov 21, 2001 12:43pm
What is going on with this post? Dakota Feedback 0 Mon Mar 05, 2001 05:06pm


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:45am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1