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Old Sun Oct 22, 2006, 10:05pm
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Charge, but shot counts?

I saw an interesting call tonight in a NYC boys all-star game. Both teams in double bonus, last minute of the game, three-man crew, top of the line for all-star game. A1 drives toward the right baseline, passes off into the lane, A1 runs into B1, A2 dunks the ball, L1 calls charge on the player that passed, L2 signals the basket good. Officials huddle, end result - team foul, no other penalty on A, basket counts.

I know that the rule is now no FTs on a team foul. The only penalty is a personal foul, in this case on a player that only had 1 foul. Doesn't seem like much of a penalty to me.

Don't ask me whether the shot happened before the charge. I would say no, but it would be a guess. I think you'd need stop action slo mo to tell for sure.
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Old Sun Oct 22, 2006, 10:16pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimgolf
I saw an interesting call tonight in a NYC boys all-star game. Both teams in double bonus, last minute of the game, three-man crew, top of the line for all-star game. A1 drives toward the right baseline, passes off into the lane, A1 runs into B1, A2 dunks the ball, L1 calls charge on the player that passed, L2 signals the basket good. Officials huddle, end result - team foul, no other penalty on A, basket counts.
Oops.
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Old Sun Oct 22, 2006, 10:44pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimgolf

Don't ask me whether the shot happened before the charge. I would say no, but it would be a guess. I think you'd need stop action slo mo to tell for sure.
Well since it was an all-star game, maybe they were just setting the rules aside for entertainment value. If the shot happened before the charge, then the ball would have been dead and you can't call a personal foul. If the shot had been released, there was no more team control so no team control foul. If the contact happened first, then you can't allow the shot. However, sometimes in all-star games, entertainment rules.
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Old Sun Oct 22, 2006, 11:13pm
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You can't do both; score the basket and call a team control foul.

If the shot is good, then there's no team control when the foul occurs.

If there's team control, then the shot can't count.
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Old Mon Oct 23, 2006, 07:13am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimgolf
I saw an interesting call tonight in a NYC boys all-star game. Both teams in double bonus, last minute of the game, three-man crew, top of the line for all-star game. A1 drives toward the right baseline, passes off into the lane, A1 runs into B1, A2 dunks the ball, L1 calls charge on the player that passed, L2 signals the basket good. Officials huddle, end result - team foul, no other penalty on A, basket counts.

I know that the rule is now no FTs on a team foul. The only penalty is a personal foul, in this case on a player that only had 1 foul. Doesn't seem like much of a penalty to me.

Don't ask me whether the shot happened before the charge. I would say no, but it would be a guess. I think you'd need stop action slo mo to tell for sure.
OMG!!!!!
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Old Mon Oct 23, 2006, 08:42am
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Maybe I explained this poorly, but the shot was a dunk, so the shot wasn't released until it was in.

I guess what I was asking was, if the shot was good, and the player who passed the ball charged into his defender (knocking him out of bounds, BTW), what should the call be? And penalties?

Sorry, I just saw the airborne passer thread - I'll check that for similarities.

Last edited by Jimgolf; Mon Oct 23, 2006 at 08:45am.
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Old Mon Oct 23, 2006, 08:46am
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If the charge occurred as he passed the ball, then the charge was first, shot does not count..
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Old Mon Oct 23, 2006, 08:48am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimgolf
Maybe I explained this poorly, but the shot was a dunk, so the shot wasn't released until it was in.

I guess what I was asking was, if the shot was good, and the player who passed the ball charged into his defender (knocking him out of bounds, BTW), what should the call be? And penalties?

Sorry, I just saw the airborne passer thread - I'll check that for similarities.
Doesn't change anything. As I said, you can't do both; score the basket and call a team control foul.

If you score the basket, it means the shot was out of his hand before the foul occurred, so the foul can't be a team control foul, as there would be no team control.

If you call it a team control foul, then the ball has to still be in his hand.

One or the other, not both.
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Old Mon Oct 23, 2006, 08:55am
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Seems to me that the foul would have to occur first if the foul was a continuation of his driving motion. Not enough time to catch and dunk before contact unless the defender was 6 feet away from driving A1. No Basket.
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Old Mon Oct 23, 2006, 09:17am
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Got it. Thanks to all.
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