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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Tue Oct 17, 2006, 08:30pm
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Throwin Plane

NFHS Rules:

1) During a throwin, defender reaches through the plane of the boundary line. Call: Warning or Technical Foul (if after one of the four delay warnings) (Case Book 7.6.3).

2) During a throwin, defender reaches through the plane of the boundary line and slaps the ball out of the inbounder's hands. Call: Technical Foul (Case Book 9.2.11)

3) During a throwin, defender reaches through the plane of the boundary line and slaps the arm of the inbounder. Call: Intentional Personal Foul (Case Book 10.3.11).

4) During a throwin, inbounder holds the ball through the plane of the boundary line and the defender slaps the ball away from the inounder. Call: Legal Play, No Violation (Case Book 7.6.3)

5) During a throwin, inbounder holds the ball through the plane of the boundary line and the defender gets both hands on the ball to attempt a steal but the inbounder won't let go of the ball. Call: Held Ball, Possession Arrow (Case Book 7.6.3)

6) During a throwin, inbounder holds the ball through the plane of the boundary line and the defender slaps the arm (also through the plane of the boundary line) of the inbounder. Call: ????? Intentional Personal Foul ????? or ????? Common Personal Foul ?????

The sixth play situation came up at a new members clinic last night. It was asked by one of the new member candidates. Several veteran officials discussed the play situation after the meeting, but we couldn't come up with a correct answer based on a rule book, case book, or test question citation.

Most of us thought that once the inbounder brought his or her arms and the ball over the plane of the boundary line that the defender would be allowed to do anything that he or she would be otherwise allowed to do on the court, slap the ball away for a steal, get involved with a held ball situation, or commit a common personal foul.

Can anyone come up with a rule book, case book, or test question citation for either an Intentional Personal Foul or a Common Personal Foul as the correct call for play situation number six above ?
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Old Tue Oct 17, 2006, 08:55pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac
NFHS Rules:

1) During a throwin, defender reaches through the plane of the boundary line. Call: Warning or Technical Foul (if after one of the four delay warnings) (Case Book 7.6.3).

2) During a throwin, defender reaches through the plane of the boundary line and slaps the ball out of the inbounder's hands. Call: Technical Foul (Case Book 9.2.11)

3) During a throwin, defender reaches through the plane of the boundary line and slaps the arm of the inbounder. Call: Intentional Personal Foul (Case Book 10.3.11).

4) During a throwin, inbounder holds the ball through the plane of the boundary line and the defender slaps the ball away from the inounder. Call: Legal Play, No Violation (Case Book 7.6.3)

5) During a throwin, inbounder holds the ball through the plane of the boundary line and the defender gets both hands on the ball to attempt a steal but the inbounder won't let go of the ball. Call: Held Ball, Possession Arrow (Case Book 7.6.3)

6) During a throwin, inbounder holds the ball through the plane of the boundary line and the defender slaps the arm (also through the plane of the boundary line) of the inbounder. Call: ????? Intentional Personal Foul ????? or ????? Common Personal Foul ?????

The sixth play situation came up at a new members clinic last night. It was asked by one of the new member candidates. Several veteran officials discussed the play situation after the meeting, but we couldn't come up with a correct answer based on a rule book, case book, or test question citation.

Most of us thought that once the inbounder brought his or her arms and the ball over the plane of the boundary line that the defender would be allowed to do anything that he or she would be otherwise allowed to do on the court, slap the ball away for a steal, get involved with a held ball situation, or commit a common personal foul.

Can anyone come up with a rule book, case book, or test question citation for either an Intentional Personal Foul or a Common Personal Foul as the correct call for play situation number six above ?
4-24-5.
Since it doesn't meet the parameters of the cases or exceptions that are noted, it is a common foul.
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Old Tue Oct 17, 2006, 09:04pm
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There you have it.
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Old Tue Oct 17, 2006, 09:53pm
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Common ... per NFHS rules committe member who spoke to our association a week ago.
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Old Tue Oct 17, 2006, 10:04pm
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I thought it was a two-line offsides sticky wicket chop block scratch balk violation.

Damn, where are those meds?
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Old Wed Oct 18, 2006, 12:35am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac
Can anyone come up with a rule book, case book, or test question citation for either an Intentional Personal Foul or a Common Personal Foul as the correct call for play situation number six above ?
We've discussed this before on this forum.

Boundary Plane Foul
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Old Wed Oct 18, 2006, 10:03am
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I've been out of this long enough, that some of these situations are handled totally differently than what I recall. I guess my question would be, why doesn't the play by definition get killed the instant a defender reaches through the plane, and either be warned, or T'd? That action happens before the ball would be slapped out of the inbounder's hands, or if the defender reaches through and fouls the inbounder. Seems like #2 and #3 are dead ball actions that have no bearing, unless the contact on the inbounder was flagrant.

Last edited by Jesse James; Wed Oct 18, 2006 at 10:19am.
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Old Wed Oct 18, 2006, 10:31am
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Arrow

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse James
I've been out of this long enough, that some of these situations are handled totally differently than what I recall. I guess my question would be, why doesn't the play by definition get killed the instant a defender reaches through the plane, and either be warned, or T'd? That action happens before the ball would be slapped out of the inbounder's hands, or if the defender reaches through and fouls the inbounder. Seems like #2 and #3 are dead ball actions that have no bearing, unless the contact on the inbounder was flagrant.
I don't disagree with your thoughts.
But, the rule is an idiosyncrasy. Seems that in this special case the farther the defender reaches, the more the defender is penalized.
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Old Wed Oct 18, 2006, 11:51am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse James
I've been out of this long enough, that some of these situations are handled totally differently than what I recall. I guess my question would be, why doesn't the play by definition get killed the instant a defender reaches through the plane, and either be warned, or T'd? That action happens before the ball would be slapped out of the inbounder's hands, or if the defender reaches through and fouls the inbounder. Seems like #2 and #3 are dead ball actions that have no bearing, unless the contact on the inbounder was flagrant.
I think that they wrote the penalties to coincide with a complete act by the defender. Iow, breaking the plane without contact is a complete act by itself. Breaking the plane with contact on the player or contact on the ball are also separate complete acts. Each distinct complete act carries it's own related penalty, with the severity of the penalty escalating with how the rules-makers view the seriousness of each act.

Make sense?
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